Texas floods, responding faithfully to tragedy, Epstein list fallout & best movies of the 2000s | Ep. 27

In this episode of Culture Brief, we reflect on the devastating floods in central Texas, the heartbreak they’ve left behind, and the political blame game that’s already started. Then Denison Forum’s Executive Director, Dr. Mark Turman, joins us for a conversation on how we process tragedy, loss, and grief as followers of Jesus.

Plus, we offer our opinions on the viral (and controversial) New York Times’ list of the best movies since 2000, break down the fallout among MAGA following the latest developments in the Jeffrey Epstein case, touch on Elon Musk’s latest political pivot, and brief you on other headlines making waves this week.

It’s a mix of hard questions, cultural hot takes, and spiritual insight—because navigating today’s world requires all three.

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Topics

• (01:08): Texas floods: An overview of the tragedy
• (04:44): Honoring the victims
• (08:57): Heroes amidst the tragedy
• (13:34): Political finger-pointing
• (18:26): Spiritual guidance and coping
• (29:27): Connecting to the tragedy
• (32:18): Resources and support
• (35:01): Debating the best movies of the century
• (40:31): Political and social updates
• (47:11): Upcoming sports documentaries
• (49:19): Conclusion and Farewell

Resources

• Mailbag: [email protected]
• Culture Brief Instagram
• Sign-up for Denison Forum’s daily newsletter: DenisonForum.org/subscribe

Links mentioned in this episode:

• Texans on Mission
• Denison Forum Podcast: Why does God allow disasters like the Texas Hill Country floods?
• Christian Parenting: How to talk to your kids about the flooding at Camp Mystic
• Viral video shows Camp Mystic children singing while escaping Texas flood
• The 100 Best Movies of the 21st Century – The New York Times
• Readers Choose Their Top Movies of the 21st Century – The New York Times

Other articles on this week’s top headlines:

• Denison Forum: Coast Guard swimmer rescues 165 in deadly Texas floods
• Denison Forum: Camp Mystic director dies trying to save kids during flood
• Politico: Deep in the heart of Texas: The Storm After the Storm
• Playbook: Why Biden wanted the CNN debate – POLITICO
• X: Homeland Security
• In Texas region prone to catastrophic floods, questions grow about lack of warning
• How a Flash Flood Turned Camp Mystic Into a Disaster Zone – WSJ
• Harrowing Tales Emerge in Texas as Rescuers Keep Up Search for Missing – The New York Times
• Terrified Girls, Helicopters and a Harrowing Scene: A Rescuer’s Account at Camp Mystic
• Texas flooding victims include Dallas Catholic school sisters, camp counselor, Walmart employee
• Camp Mystic counselor who died in Texas flooding remembered as ‘loyal and beloved’ – ABC News
• Texas Flood Hero, Camp Mystic Director Makes Ultimate Sacrifice: ‘Just Who He Was’
• Texas flooding: at least 107 people have died as questions intensify over handling of disaster – as it happened
• Hopes fade for missing Texas flood victims as death toll hovers around 100 | Reuters
• Young Campers Seen Crying and Singing Campfire Songs in Videos as They Evacuated amid Devastating Texas Floods
• Tuesday, July 8, 2025 – The Texas Flyover
• Flood predictions could worsen when Trump’s cuts take hold – POLITICO
• Dems try blaming Trump for Texas flood death toll
• Trump spending cuts, his approach to climate change attacked as catalyst of catastrophic Texas flooding
• Denison Forum: Elon Musk announces the “America Party”

About Conner Jones

Conner Jones is the Director of Performance Marketing at Denison Ministries and Co-Hosts Denison Forum’s “Culture Brief” podcast. He graduated from Dallas Baptist University in 2019 with a degree in Business Management. Conner passionately follows politics, sports, pop-culture, entertainment, and current events. He enjoys fishing, movie-going, and traveling the world with his wife and son.

About Micah Tomasella

Micah Tomasella is the Senior Advancement Officer at Denison Ministries and co-hosts Denison Forum’s “Culture Brief” podcast. A graduate of Dallas Baptist University, Micah is married to Emily, and together they are the proud parents of two daughters. With an extensive background in nonprofit work, finance, and real estate, Micah also brings experience from his years in pastoral church ministry.

About Denison Forum

Denison Forum exists to thoughtfully engage the issues of the day from a biblical perspective through The Daily Article email newsletter and podcast, The Denison Forum Podcast, as well as many books and additional resources.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

NOTE: This transcript was AI-generated and has not been fully edited. 

Conner Jones: [00:00:00] Hi, I am Conner Jones. 

Micah Tomasella: I’m Micah Tomasella,

Conner Jones: And this is Culture Brief, a Denison Forum podcast, where we navigate the constant stream of top stories and news, politics, sports, pop culture, technology and more. And we’re doing it all from a Christian perspective. And Micah, we have heavy hearts today with so much happening in our home state of Texas.

So that is gonna be the bulk of our episode, but do you want to tell us kind of a rundown of what all we’re gonna be talking about on this episode? 

Micah Tomasella: Absolutely, Conner. Yes, definitely a heavy episode. But you know, at the same time, we’re grateful for a good God through it and we’re grateful for the opportunity to be able to speak truth into all of this and hopefully bring some hope.

So we’re gonna talk about the Texas floods, the disaster, the tragedy, the blame game that’s been ensuing, the heroes from it, and then a Christian’s response to it. We have a special guest today. I won’t name names just yet, but get excited. We’re gonna go through the New York Times Top 100 movies list of the two thousands.

We’ve got Epstein Fallout, [00:01:00] Elon Musk announces the America Party, and so much more. So let’s jump into the brief. 

Conner Jones: The brief. Okay. Like we said, right up top, we’re gonna just. Dive into this really difficult story. This is of course the central Texas floods in the hill country, part of Texas out near San Antonio, Austin area, a few a hundred miles west of there.

There was intense flooding that has taken the lives of very, very many people including many young children who were campers along the rivers there, particularly the Guadalupe River, that is the one that really rushed and flooded. This was. Something that you know is touching a lot of people here in Texas, no matter who you talk to, including Micah and I and others here on our staff, we have been impacted either directly or like in Micah and I’s instance, just we’ve got connections with people who have been impacted directly.

It seems like most people in Texas have some sort of connection and of course there are thousands of people who are. S very directly impacted by this flooding and [00:02:00] tragedy. The devastation in these towns on these camps, the death, the mourning, it’s all just really hard to see. We’ve got friends that know some of the girls who were killed at these camps.

They worked with them in their kids’ ministries. We’ve got a staff member who’s been very directly impacted. So here at Denison Forum even. Readers, listeners, donors, they’ve been impacted. And so if you’re listening to this and you’ve been directly impacted, we are praying for you and with you, and there’s just so many stories.

So I, I’m glad we’re gonna hit on a lot of this, including stories of hope and heroes, and we will offer some great spiritual applications with our, our guests later on. Here’s what happened. Essentially July 4th, as we were all celebrating, we started learning more and more about what happened overnight.

It was 4:00 AM. Which is a really, just if you think about it, that is one of the worst times for flooding to happen at 4:00 AM these rivers started to flood and that’s ’cause there were just rain clouds. They were just sitting over this area of Texas and they weren’t going anywhere, and so they were just sitting in and starting these flash floods.

So between 2:00 [00:03:00] AM and 7:00 AM the Guadalupe River in Kerrville, Texas rose from one to 36 feet in height. In five hours, Micah. Yeah. That is just unreal. Insane. And of course it’s, it’s the middle of the night. It’s, it’s those. Hours that are dark, you’re, you’re asleep. You just don’t know that the water is rising at this level and all of a sudden it just, it comes rushing in.

As of this recording, we are recording Tuesday evening. The death toll sits at 110 total. People having lost their lives, and then 161 people are still missing. So at the end of this, the death toll will likely be over 250. Between there and and 300, this will be one of the most deadly natural disasters in American history.

87 of the deaths so far occurred specifically in Carr County. 30 of those are known to be children. A lot of them from Camp Mystic, a private Christian summer camp for girls that’s located on the Guadalupe River. At least five girls in the counselor are still missing from that camp. [00:04:00] 850 people were rescued, and we’ll have more on that in a few minutes, but that’s a huge number of people who were thankfully saved from these conditions.

And then of course, countless homes, businesses, camps, campgrounds, they were all destroyed. And it’s gonna just take years for this river, these communities along the river to recover from the full destruction. Micah, I think this is something that happens with me often, but even probably people who are tuned into all this news, when you hear numbers and stats of casualties like this.

It can be easy to just hear statistics, right? But when you think about it, I mean, every single one of those numbers, there’s so much more than that. They’re a life. They’re a son, a daughter, a brother, sister, husband, wife, mom, dad, friends, sibling, all of that. Every number is a tragedy. And so with that in mind, I kind of want to just honor a few of the victims.

Some of these that have been noted in the media, their families have announced their passing and even offered some insights into what. Type of person they were. So I just wanna honor a few of them knowing that this is just a sliver of the people who were lost. But [00:05:00] let’s start off with Reese Zucker, a teacher and high school soccer coach in Kerrville, and his wife Paula, who was also a former teacher.

They were both killed and their two children, Lyle and Holland, are still missing. They were in a vacation house along the river that was swept away. A former soccer player of Reese said that he was a father figure to us all and was an integral part of the culture at Tivy High School in Kerrville. Blair and Brooke Harbor.

They were age 13 and 11, and they were killed along with their grandparents, Charlene and Mike Harbor. While camping, this family of these two young sisters said that they were found with their hands locked together. Their Catholic school in Dallas even said that in their last moments, they held tightly to each other, a powerful symbol of their lasting bond and their trust in God.

Jeff and Tanya Ramsey were family members of one of our staff here at Denon Forum, and she said that they were so very special. Jeff worked tirelessly with wounded veterans, and Tanya worked with cancer patients and she actually [00:06:00] just ring the bell on her own battle with breast cancer. And then of course Camp Mystic is getting a lot of the headlines as the summer camp has lost so much life.

There were around 750 people at the camp when the flooding hit, and it’s believed that there are 27 campers and counselors that were killed. Two of those were 8-year-old twins, Hannah and Rebecca Lawrence and their older sister thankfully survived, but I cannot even imagine losing twin daughters. Their father said that Hannah loved to build, draw, create, and would make new friends wherever she went, and that Rebecca loved to snuggle and enjoyed family movie nights and had an infectious laugh and wanted to be a teacher when she grew up.

And of course there were just dozens. More of these girls. Just some of the names are Lila, Bonner, Eloise, Peck, Anna, Margaret Bellows, Renee Masra. Lenny Ann McCowen, Sarah Marsh, Mary Catherine, Jacob, Janie Hunt. There was Chloe Childress, who was a counselor and a recent high school graduate who was set to attend UT in Austin this fall.

Dick Eastland was the director of Camp [00:07:00] Mystic, who died trying to save campers. He went on two trips with us here at Denison Farm to Israel. That’s something that is a special privilege for many people. They get to go with us over to Israel. Mike and I have done that, and Dick went twice. Dr. Denison, Dr.

Jim Denison, said in an interview on CBN News Monday. That I was not surprised when the news said that he had died trying to save some of the campers. That is just who he was. Yeah. So yeah, those names and brief obituaries, they’re, they’re just not enough to cover everything, but they are enough to crush your heart.

And there are so many more stories, so many more lives that have been impacted by this and so many more lives lost. And you know, we need to pray for these families as they’re just walking through basically anyone’s worst nightmare. The loss of a child, the loss of family members or multiple children.

Some people lost children and parents and siblings. It’s just. Unbelievable destruction and devastation. So we’ll talk shortly about how we can pray for these families and support them and we’ll discuss how a [00:08:00] good God can even allow something like this to happen. But what I’ll say right now is Micah, I, I don’t know if you’ve seen it, but there’s been this viral video going around of these girls coming out of the camp that survived and they’re on a bus and they’re leaving Camp mystics grounds, and there’s just destruction all around them.

But they have made it through the night and they’ve survived, and they’re singing worship songs. Yeah. It’s just extremely powerful as they cling to each other, but also clinging to their hope and salvation and their just faith in God. Anyways, that’s just kind of a, a brief overview of what happened and trying to mention some of the names as more names come out.

Just remember, these are not just numbers, these are lives. 

Micah Tomasella: Yeah. Yeah. Conner, thank you very much for that breakdown. As I can imagine, it’s difficult for our listeners. To hear when we’re talking about this, just understand that it’s difficult for us to get through it. Mm-hmm. But there’s nothing else that we’d rather be talking about right now.

And we do need to be honoring these people who did lose their lives. And so we are burdened and privileged to. And a good way to be able to speak on this today. But one thing I wanna talk about is I wanna talk about the [00:09:00] heroes in the flood and kind of how we were able to find light in darkness through some good stories in this.

Mm-hmm. In the middle of all the devastation from the central Texas floods this week, we’ve seen stories that remind us of who we are and who God has created us to be. Yes, the damage is real. Yes, many lives were lost. Homes destroyed entire communities overwhelmed. But as is often the case in tragedy, the worst moments.

Sometimes can bring out the best in people. So the first person I wanna talk about is Scott Ruskin. He’s gotten a lot of news coverage recently because this guy’s an American hero, is a 26-year-old Coast Guard rescue swimmer who coordinated the evacuation of 165 people at Camp Mystic Helicopters had to carry campers and staff out in groups of 10 to 15.

He didn’t just save. Lives. He, he brought calm into chaos in those moments. I, I think he read that he was maybe six months out of diver school and they sent him in and he was a big part of saving and rescuing 165 people. Silvanna Garza, Valdez and Maria Paula Zarate were counselors [00:10:00] at Camp Mystic and showed unbelievable presence as the river rose.

They wrote each camper’s name and age on their arms just in case so they could be identified if they were swept away in the storm. Just these. College students, these girls having the ability in that moment to be able to do that, they moved everyone into the dining hall and just tried to distract the girls.

I was watching an interview with those two camp counselors and they were just trying to keep the girls distracted as they were getting scared and trying to just help them have fun. They didn’t know if. They were going to make it incredible courage and strength. Then there’s Carl Jeter, a 70-year-old from CenterPoint.

He guided first responders to a 22-year-old woman clinging to a tree, swept nearly 20 miles down the Guadalupe River. That woman is alive today because Carl paid attention and he acted 19-year-old Reta Scho from Belton. She fought to stay afloat for 20 minutes before neighbors pulled her through a window using.

Bedsheets everyday, people stepping in, doing whatever it took. Jonathan McComb lost [00:11:00] his wife and children in the 2015 Wimberley Texas Flood. Came back to help search for the missing. He spent hours clearing debris with volunteers and turned his grief into service. Justin Rubio and dozens of others showed up even though they weren’t even trained and they weren’t supposed to be there, but they knew they couldn’t just sit at home and do nothing.

Businesses stepped into HEB, which actually started in Kerrville, Texas, brought food to victims all across the region. Grant Pinkerton, the barbecue guy from Houston and San Antonio showed up with meals and said he’d be back again. These are just a few. Of the beautiful moments and the heroes that stepped up in times of tragedy.

We’re gonna keep hearing stories like this, and I think it’s beautiful. These moments of sacrificial courage reflect what Jesus said in John 1513. Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay his life down for his friends. That kind of love ist always dramatic. Sometimes it’s just choosing to step into someone else’s pain, even when it costs you something.

And [00:12:00] I think. It also points to something deeper too. Conner, we’re made in the image of God a Mago day. These moments remind us something that is eternal is there’s something eternal that’s stamped on the human heart. I. Mm-hmm. Because we’re created that way. When people run towards danger, when they give all that, they have even give more than what they have and choose love over fear.

We get a glimpse of who God has created us to be truly being made in his image. So when floodwaters rose, so did the compassion, so did the courage and the goodness that God has hardwired into us, you can deny it. You can spend a lifetime denying the image of God stamped into your heart and into your life, but you might as well just lean into it.

Even in tragedy, the image of God shines through, and that is hope. 

Conner Jones: Yeah. That’s great. Yeah, there’s, there’s so much here that we can take away. It’s so much news that we’re not even able to cover here because it’s just constant stream of news. But you know, there’s a lot that each [00:13:00] of us can take and we can apply it to our personal lives on how we’re responding to this, how we’re.

You know, going through this something might even really touch you. Micah, you and I both worked at a summer camp with kids in college, and so relating to those counselors and trying to understand what was going through their minds at that time and just, I have so much respect for those who were able to keep calm and help keep their kids calm and help them feel safe, and thank you to all those heroes.

I bet there’s so many more heroes who won’t ever even make the news that did many things that could be headlines themselves. Yeah. That we won’t even get to touch on. Yeah. But Mike, I do know that we got a listener question, I think. I want to ask you about this. Yeah. Had somebody write into us on Instagram that said, in light of the devastation that has happened in the Hill country, why do you think people are pointing to the Trump administration and the Republicans to bear the blame of these floods?

So what, I know you did some research into this. What did you find? Yeah. 

Micah Tomasella: Yeah, so let me kind of set the stage. That’s a great question. Thank you. So in, in the aftermath of the devastating floods in the Hill country, we’ve not only seen heroic rescues [00:14:00] and, and outpouring of kindness like we talked about, we’ve also seen a wave of political finger pointing, which is frustrating.

But it’s all too common and it’s not surprising whatsoever. An event like this is being politicized. The listener’s question is fair, and it’s one that’s getting a lot of attention. So here’s what the critics are saying. Let me just lay out what the critics are saying and what the defenders are saying.

So they point to. Staffing cuts and budget rollbacks at the National Weather Service and the NOAA during the Trump years. They argue that those decisions weakened the nation’s forecasting system at a time when extreme weather events are becoming more common. I. Others say that the environmental rollbacks and the refusal to acknowledge climate change to take a more serious stance on climate change contributes to this.

In their view, the lack of investment in climate readiness and public safety infrastructure has made disasters like this more common and more. Deadly, but others push back and they’re pushing back [00:15:00] strongly too. So they say the National Weather Service actually issued warnings ahead of time. Forecasts were clear, alerts were sent.

They argue that this isn’t actually about politics, it’s about the local warning systems that failed to get the word out to people in time. So they also point out that many of the budget cuts being blamed weren’t even fully enacted and haven’t directly impacted. Did this specific disaster and for many on the right.

Blaming one administration in the middle of a crisis feels more like political theater than it does an actual solution. Yeah, it just feels like a distraction. 

Conner Jones: Yeah. And you’re forcing officials to take away from their focus on rescue and recovery efforts to having to answer questions about this. And I do think that there will be investigations.

What could have been done better? What could have been done differently? Will there be warning sirens placed down the road? Yeah. I mean, it’s not even 

Dr. Mark Turman: just 

Conner Jones: why, why are we doing this right now? Give us some time. And also, they’ve come out and they’ve said, Hey, we actually had more meteorologists on staff that night.

Than usual because we were expecting some sort of situation, emergency situation. So [00:16:00] it’s kind of all for nothing right now. Yeah. Focus on on that task at hand and then come back and talk about this. 

Micah Tomasella: Yeah. The problem is this is not a Democrat only issue. Whenever Democrats are in power, whenever Obama was president, or Biden was president, any little thing.

Those on the right would try to draw a conclusion as well and would true, and would do the same exact thing as what’s happening right now with Democrats calling out Republicans and Trump. So the, you know, it’s, it goes both ways. This isn’t only one party doing it, so I do want to call attention to that, but yes.

While I say that it is frustrating ’cause I think it distracts from what needs to be most important right now. So where does that leave us? Like most things, I think the truth is layered. Mm-hmm. It’s like an onion that you gotta keep peeling. Climate scientists have worn for years that flash floods are becoming more intense, especially in areas like central Texas.

Emergency agencies have been stretched thin and they’ve been stretched thin for. Decades across multiple administrations. And [00:17:00] so local officials in places like Kerk County were already told years ago that they needed better systems in place, but those systems were not funded. They were not prioritized, and they were not built.

So yes, there is a political debate here, but underneath it’s a bigger question, how do we prepare for a world where weather is getting more extreme and where lives are on the line seemingly more frequently? So I’ll end with this. When you push an agenda that cuts funding for the National Weather Service.

And limits federal government’s ability to respond to natural disasters. You’re gonna take heat when those natural disasters hit, right? So most likely these cuts that Trump has put into place probably had nothing to do with this. However, a couple years down the line, it’s gonna be easy pickings for his opponents to say, mm-hmm.

You cut these weather systems, you cut these warnings, you cut these safeguards. It’s definitely gonna hurt the situation. It’s not gonna help it. So that’s just the political reality, and I don’t think this will be the last time that we hear that argument. And while cutting government waste, we’ve made clear we’re all on board with, there are [00:18:00] trade-offs when you’re cutting government waste or when you’re slashing certain programs in certain things, as we’ve talked about before.

Conner Jones: Yeah, there are. Thank Micah for kind of explaining that it is an interesting situation. It’s always political. This is after any disaster. Yeah. It feels like we go straight to politics, but let’s focus on victims. Icky. It just feels icky. Icky right now. Give some time and then we’ll do an investigation and look into it.

But right now focus on the victims and the Yeah. Communities that need help. Okay. Speaking of all of that. We want to now welcome Dr. Mark Turman on to help us process through this tragedy. Dr. Turman was a pastor for 35 years and is now the executive director here at Denon Forum. He also hosts the Denon Forum Podcast.

Micah, you and I have been on there a number of times. It’s always fun to join Dr. Turman on there. On Monday of this week, he hosted and emergency podcast with Dr. Jim Denison. They titled it. Why does God allow disasters like the Texas Hill country floods? And so we thought it would be really good to have Mark on to join us this week as he can offer some great wisdom and counsel for how [00:19:00] we can faithfully respond.

Welcome Dr. Turman and Micah, you wanna take us away with the first question here? 

Micah Tomasella: Yeah. Dr. Mark Turman. Good to have you on the show. Glad that you’re here. You know, guys, mark is basically our boss in this whole thing, and so it’s, it’s a blessing that he’s gracing us with his presence today. 

Dr. Mark Turman: Thank you guys.

It’s an honor to work with you every day, and it’s a great opportunity and privilege to get to sit down. You guys are doing a great job tonight and every week, helping people to understand what’s going on in the world, what’s going on in the culture, and how to see it through God’s word and through God’s love, and you’re doing a great job with that tonight in the midst of a really, really hard, yeah.

And sad situation. Yeah. Just listening to you guys cover some of what we know, Conner, you just rolled it together. It just, it’s just such a big, big, heavy weight and we’re not even the people who lost loved ones. Yeah. But I, I suspect every part of the world knows what this [00:20:00] experience is because almost every part of the world has some kind of.

Disaster that comes their way, unfortunately, and it’s just really hard and it’s gonna be hard for a while. But I’m glad you guys are talking about it. I’m glad you’re praying and encouraging others to pray and to engage. That’s exactly the way we need to walk. And as to the political conversation, I really appreciate you guys not only calling it out, but saying, Hey, that’s, that’s later.

You know what we’ve, we’ve got families that need to plan funerals and families still waiting. To find out where and what has happened to their loved ones. And all of that conversation can have its time down the road. I think that’s totally right. Yep. 

Micah Tomasella: Yeah, I mean, and it’s definitely an important conversation.

And Mark, thank you for those kind words. I wish the first time we were bringing you on was under different circumstances, but at the same time, very grateful for your heart and for your wisdom and for your ministry to be able to ask you some of these questions. So we just have a couple. Questions we’d like to ask you.

I’ll just ask the [00:21:00] first one. Mark, how do we grieve this? Man, is it okay to just pray and let this go? How can we respond with faith, compassion, and hope in this time? 

Dr. Mark Turman: Yeah, I think that’s a, a big question and it’s all experiences of grief, which is in my opinion. Very personal and there is no one way to grieve anything, and particularly to grieve something of this nature.

You know, I’m, I’m old enough to remember the previous floods that y’all talked about, the 2015 flood. I have friends that I’ve known for years that live in Wimberley and. Experienced that 10 years ago. I remember 1987 when a camp in that area called the Pot of Gold Camp, lost a busload of kids driving through floodwaters, and we saw the same kind of thing of Raging River and helicopter rescues and.

All kinds of both tragedy and amazing heroic efforts. But grieving is one of those things that is a [00:22:00] part of life for all of us as people, but it’s also something that Christians can approach in a very unique way. The Bible tells us that we grieve. But we grieve in hope and with hope because we know that God has promised that he will redeem all that he allows.

And yeah, there are big questions about why God allows something like this, and Dr. Dennison and I took that up. In some significant ways in the podcast that other people can tap into on the Denison Forum podcast, but I think giving yourself permission to be sad is a good thing. Yeah. When I was talking to our chapel on Sunday, we were processing this together and it just, I was sitting in church listening to the first couple of songs and I was like, God, what do you want me to say?

What? Verse would you want me to point to? And what came to mind is a little bit of what Paul was inspired to write by the Holy Spirit in Philippians three when he said that My goal is to know Jesus as well as you can know him, [00:23:00] and to experience the fellowship of his sufferings. And again, this was another great thing that Dr.

Denison and I talked about, but to just come back to that idea that. We are the body of Christ. And as we know with our own bodies, you know, if you hit your thumb with a hammer, your whole body is involved and your whole body is disturbed. And so we should allow ourselves to grieve for whatever grieves, any of us, and particularly that which grieves and breaks the heart of God.

And I believe this does that. It is, as Dr. Dennison said, the the worst possible scenario. You have innocent people, innocent children. Who are caught up in a natural disaster that is nobody’s fault. 

Micah Tomasella: Yeah, 

Dr. Mark Turman: yeah. Yes. We could talk about early warning systems and all that, but none of us caused the rain to come and none of us caused it to come in that measure.

Certainly none of the victims caused that. So we need to give ourselves permission. We need to remind ourselves of truth, [00:24:00] but we also need to realize. That we are not in and of ourselves capable of carrying this kind of grief. We were never wired by God to do that. I remember a couple years ago, I was about to have a conversation with one of our friends up in Minnesota, Carmen LaBerge, she’s a Christian radio commentator, and that morning there had been a shooting at one of the college campuses in Virginia and it was just.

Horrible on every level. And it was breaking my heart. And as we started talking in that radio interview, I just said, you know, I just, I don’t know how I can carry this. And she said you can’t. None of us can. The only person who has a heart big enough to carry this is God. Amen. And I think we need to hold onto that and say, God, show me.

What part and what place you want me to have in this. I think those are a couple of places for us to go, and yes, we need to stay aware and we need to stay prayerful, but we don’t have to watch every minute of coverage because [00:25:00] it’s so heart wrenching. 

Conner Jones: Mm-hmm. 

Micah Tomasella: Yes. Thank you for that, mark. That is a very good summation.

Thank you. 

Conner Jones: Yeah, thanks Mark. Another question for you real fast is, you know, this is for us in Texas, this is very close in proximity, but even when it’s beyond Texas, this is a very American-centric tragedy. All of America is preying and wrapping their arms around this group of people that has been just devastated by this.

Why does it hurt more deeply when disasters happen closer to us? And why is it easier to brush off what’s happening? Somewhere else in the world, for instance, like Gaza where there is so much suffering, or Ukraine, or when there’s an earthquake somewhere else halfway across the world. But those are humans too, right?

Those are human lives that are being lost and devastated. Is it spiritual immaturity or is it something else? Is it just like we can relate to these people differently or better because we are so close to them? 

Dr. Mark Turman: Yeah, I think, you know, there could possibly be an element of spiritual maturity that we need to evaluate in our lives, because like you said, every human being has the image of God [00:26:00] on them and that we should value every human being.

And in the world we live in, we’re able to see what happens to people all around the world. We, even today, we started a conversation in our ministry about. How, how do we learn and how do we help people pray the news? And that’s, that’s part of what we can do here. But I do think there is the capacity issue that we just simply don’t have the capacity to take in.

All of the hurts of the world as personally as we might feel like we should, but we just simply don’t have the capacity that God has. The second thing is that there’s a natural human tendency, that kind of fight or flight mode, that if something is close to us, even geographically close to us. That we seem to own it more because we’re like, how close is that potential danger to me if there is a tornado in a certain county, one of my first questions is, is how many counties away is that from me?

Micah Tomasella: Right. 

Dr. Mark Turman: Yeah. Because I’m [00:27:00] assessing the amount of risk to me and to my family and to people that I care about. But then I think the other thing is there’s kind of an element of what I would call probability. Which is we as Americans, when we see like things going on in Gaza and things going on in the Ukraine, we’re like we’re safe here.

You know, the probability and possibility of somebody dropping bombs on us on a regular basis is pretty remote. At least we think it is pretty remote. So we don’t immediately identify with it. But I had exactly this experience on Friday, July 4th. I woke up, I was making breakfast. I was enjoying the start of the holiday.

Somewhere around 10 30 in the morning, my wife says, Hey, are you seeing what this stuff is going on down around San Antonio? And she started telling me the story. We turned on the news and all of a sudden it started to matter more because mm-hmm. It was in the state in which we lived. About three or four hours later, one of my [00:28:00] friends at our chapel called and said, Hey, my grandkids are at these camps.

And it automatically became much more real. Wow. And much more personal. And then he went on to say, and oh, by the way. Dick Eastland, who owns and operates Camp Mystic was a college friend of mine and has been a good friend of mine for the last 40 years, and I’ve been trying to reach him all day. And then, you know, more and more details come out.

We find out that Dick Eastland and his wife had been, we were reminded that he was on these trips to Israel with us, and it just becomes more and more real. But then the other part of this is kind of what you were alluding to a minute ago that. You know, all three of us have been camp counselors at different times in our lives.

We’ve been responsible for young children at different times, and all of a sudden we’re like, this could have been us, or this could be somebody that we know, or we’ve been in [00:29:00] situations similar to this. And it’s kinda like when you go and you watch a movie and you, you’re watching a movie and you’re like, oh, that could be me.

And that sense of connection, of probability of having been to this part of our state and knowing what it is like to be along the Guadalupe River, where, you know, thousands of us have gone to the Guadalupe in a summer and gone tubing down the river. Yeah. And so all of those things kind of help us connect to it.

Because it’s right near us. And I think I, I just think that’s the way we’re wired. I don’t think it’s really so much about spiritual immaturity. It, it is really just a fact of the way that our brains and our hearts and our lives work. 

Conner Jones: That’s a fair point. That’s good. Yeah. When you look at these like campgrounds and these families that we’re down there just camping for the 4th of July weekend, it’s yeah, that could have been us.

Yeah. If my family had opted to grab an RV and go down there for Yep. The weekend. Yeah, that could have been us. I, so I understand what you’re saying there. So that’s great perspective, [00:30:00] mark, and appreciate your just insights there. I was wondering if you’ve got any verses that come to mind right now that if anybody is listening to this and they’re like, I need a sense of hope, maybe they’re connected to somebody who has been impacted by this or they’re not, and they’re just like, I just need a sense of hope.

Just in general after the situation. Are there any verses that come to mind for you that would be encouraging for somebody today? I. 

Dr. Mark Turman: Yeah, there are a few and I appreciate you asking. You know, obviously. Identifying with Jesus when it says that Jesus wept at the tomb of his friend Lazarus, and that his heart was broken over the brokenness of our world, and his heart is still broken and is very much broken.

Yes, there are big, big theological questions about why God didn’t prevent this from happening, and those are hard questions to think about, but we know that this was not the will of God. God did not send this. As some kind of judgment upon these people and upon these children especially, we know that he’s broken hearted.

I love what the Bible says in [00:31:00] Second Corinthians chapter one, where it says that he is the God of all comfort, and that these are times when we feel like we have to believe. Because not believing would take us to such a place of despair and darkness that it would be hard to go on even for an hour.

And so sometimes faith is more easy and sometimes we are eager. And it seems like it’s just logical and simple to believe. And in times like this. We find ourselves praying like that desperate father who had a demon possessed son who said, Jesus, I believe, help my unbelief. 

Micah Tomasella: Yeah. Mm. 

Dr. Mark Turman: The other scripture that just comes to mind is two Corinthians five that talks about the promise of resurrection life.

First Thessalonians four 13 through 18, the same kind of thing that we don’t grieve as others because we know, again, as others have said. These people and these children, we talk about them being lost, but we know that they’re not lost in the [00:32:00] ultimate sense. We know where they are. We know many, hopefully every one of them is safe in the presence of Jesus tonight.

And we know for those that are believers, there will be a day of reunion and there will be a day of eternal Amen. Celebration. And we have to clinging to that hope. 

Conner Jones: Yep. Mark, we’re so grateful that you came on here tonight to just talk to us and you know, this is great insight and we will definitely link in our podcast description to the episode you did with Dr.

Dennison yesterday talking about. The more theological aspects of this and asking those really hard questions. Why would a good and loving God allow something like this to happen? Why would he not stop at all of that? So you guys had a great discussion on that. We’re gonna link to that and make sure people are pointed that direction.

We’re also going to link to an organization that you recommended for us as someone that you can go out to, to donate to, or volunteer with whatever you need to do. This is gonna be Texans on Mission. They’re formerly the Texas Baptist Men. That’s. A really popular name around this area. But Texans on [00:33:00] Mission is, you know, you can donate there nationally.

They’re on the ground. They have deployed the emergency and disaster relief units helping with recovery efforts there. So we’ll link their page as well in our podcast notes. Yeah. Mark, thank you so much for joining us, and we hope next time we have you on. It’s for a better reason Yeah. Than having to go through something like this.

But we’re grateful for your wisdom and insight tonight. 

Dr. Mark Turman: Thanks, mark. Thank you guys. Yeah. Thank y’all for all that you’re doing and we’ll just continue to pray and work together to be a part. Last thing I’d say is, I don’t know why this happened, we won’t know until heaven comes, but Micah, to what you were talking about with the heroes, I just want to call this out.

What I do know is that God showed up and he showed up in the form of every one of those people that were helping. Mm-hmm. Every one of those people that were risking their own lives, every one of those things, Micah is, as you called out, that is the expression of the presence of God. In the soul of every human being, and thank God that there are people who show up to help and to rescue when people are hurting.

Amen. Amen to that. Yep. [00:34:00] Great point. 

Conner Jones: Thank you guys. Thank you, Mark. Like I said, you can donate. That is one practical step you can take. Another practical thing that we can be doing is just praying, right Micah? Praying for these victims, their families, and everybody impacted. And for all of the first responders and everybody who’s seen really hard things, I mean, there are people who are having to recover bodies that need prayer as well.

There will be just deep impacts for many, many years. Another thing to mention is that our partner ministry, Christian Parenting, published an article this week. It’s got a conversation guide for how to talk to your kids if you have young children, how do you talk to them about this tragedy and specifically the Camp Mystic situation.

And maybe they’re going to camp too and now they’re a little scared or something. We’ve got all kinds of questions answered in that, so we’ll link that in our podcast description as well. But yeah, Micah, this was a really hard topic and we, we needed to dive into it and we will continue to pray, but I definitely.

Think we could use a bit of a pallet cleanser. 

Micah Tomasella: Yeah. Let’s take it to the lighter side. Take us away, let’s go to 

Conner Jones: the lighter side of stuff and continue to hit on culture things real fast.[00:35:00] 

Micah, I don’t know, I, I mean, I’m assuming you somewhat saw this, but last week, the New York Times, which, you know, take them for what you will, but they released their list of the top 100 movies of the century so far. Let’s just say it. It started a firestorm online, right? Like people were, were kind of.

Thrown off by this, but here’s what they said. They brought in more than 500 influential directors, actors, and other notable names in Hollywood and around the world to vote on the best films released since January 1st, 2000. So 25 years into the century, they wanted to know what are the top 100 films. So it’s got dramas, action animations, documentaries, even some comedies like Anchorman is in there.

Yeah, yeah. So there’s, there’s a, it’s kind of a wide spectrum but it, it definitely caused quite a bit of debate, and I would say it did not really represent everyone’s opinions. That includes mine, I think that includes yours as well. Just go through the list, we’ll link it or just type it into Google and search the top one of your movies New York Times and you will get to this.

But their top 10 included Number 10 at the social network. Then spirited away, number eight is Get [00:36:00] Out. That’s actually a great movie. Number seven, eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. Number six, no Country for Old Men. Number five, moonlight. Number four in the mood for love. Number three, there will be blood number two, Mulhall and Drive.

And number one, this is the one that set the internet on fire. Parasite just a head. Ridiculous 

Micah Tomasella: top 10 list. I mean, just an so bad, absolutely ridiculous top 10 list. I mean, you know, this is I mean, you and I have talked about the Oscars, the Tonys, the Emmys, you know, all the shows. It is just this, this group of people that don’t really care, like if movies have actually had much of an impact on culture whatsoever, or if people actually like them.

They just like what they like, and then that’s how they pick it. So that’s exactly what happened here. 

Conner Jones: So I will say this thing had a cool feature where you go down this list of a hundred movies. Oh yeah. And it let you check boxes on If you’ve seen it, I did it too. Or if you’d like to watch it. So Micah, I have seen 42 of these movies and I, I checked off, I wanna see 16 of them.

What were your numbers? 

Micah Tomasella: So I have seen 31 of them and I wanted to see [00:37:00] eight of them. So just don’t share numbers alone. We understand that Conner’s a bit more of a movie buff than me, but at the same time I had seen a decent share of them. But Conner, they released a reader’s list version.

Conner Jones: Yeah, they did.

Here’s the thing. It’s much better. Okay. I think both of our opinion, right? Yes, I saw it too. Yep. Because. The critics list did not have any like of the big movies from, let’s just say like Harry Potter or Pirate to the Caribbean. There was no Star Wars movies on there even. Yeah, top Gun Maverick somehow didn’t make it on there.

Where were the Dune movies? Where was Sicario? Hacksaw, Ridge Fury, passion of the Christ. All kinds of movies that should definitely have been on there. Where was 

Micah Tomasella: Nacho Libre? Where was Hot Rod? Where was Napoleon Dynamite. Those movies defined a generation. You’re talking about the two thousands. You’re gonna mention those movies.

Those, those defined a generation, you’re not even gonna give it like a top 100. Come on now. 

Conner Jones: Absolutely insane. In fact, I think the, actually the most egregious thing was that they only put one of the Lord of the Rings movies on there and they, it was Fellowship with the ring at number 87, which is just nuts.

What Nuts. Anyway, so the readers list, okay. Their top 10 was a lot of the same movies kind of in a different order. And readers list was like [00:38:00] many, many New York Times readers came in and voted. So just regular people. And they listed Mad Max Fury wrote at number seven. The Dark Knight. This one deserves to be there at Number Doubt.

Six, no doubt. Amazing movie. Interstellar at number five also deserves to be up there. Great movie. You know, I think all around it has more popular and less artsy movies on that list. I would encourage you guys to go look at the full list of a hundred. It is cool ’cause you can mark the ones that you would like to see as well.

I just think Hollywood should probably be taking notes, like you said, with the award shows and now this type of list. It just shows the disconnect that these people in the Hollywood culture have from the people in. Actual American culture. Yeah. Or maybe even world culture, Yeah, we see movies totally differently.

In fact, I saw 42 on the critics list and on the readers list I’ve seen 60. So like just, it’s like more normal. Type movies, if that makes sense. 

Micah Tomasella: Yeah, 

Conner Jones: absolutely. Did 

Micah Tomasella: your number jump? Mine jumped a little bit from 31 to 39, and then I wanted to see four more movies. ’cause I think from that list, for the most [00:39:00] part, I’ve seen all the ones that I wanted to see.

But yes, so this is gonna be linked. You guys go through there, see how many you’ve seen, see you know what you wanna see. We live in a beautiful time, right? I mean, you used to have to go rent a. A a disc, a DVD, a Blu-ray. Now you can just search on whatever platform and you can find it in five seconds. You know what I mean?

So do yourself a favor and go see some of these classic movies. And I will 

Conner Jones: just say the readers are right because they added all three of the Lord of the Rings movies. In fact, two of them were in the top 20, and only one of them was on the Yes. The readers got 

Micah Tomasella: it more right. You know, again, I just every, everybody views and wants to get something out of movies a little bit different.

I think that’d be like a fun topic for us later. Yeah. You and I approach movies differently. Mm-hmm. And I think that we probably represent. Kind of like a large portion of some people will fall on this and some people will fall on that. So we will make sure to touch on that in the future. Let’s talk about our check-in section, but before I do that, I just wanna mention the mailbag real quick.

[00:40:00] You know, we keep bringing up these different emails that we’re getting, or dms that we’re getting. We want to continue to hear from you. So please email us your questions, your topics, or your thoughts to culture [email protected]. We do read that. Also follow us on Culture Brief Podcast. So at Culture Brief.

Podcast on Instagram. You can send us a DM there to get in touch with us as well. Thank you for your engagement and we ask you that you continue to engage with us. It makes the show better. So let’s jump into checkin and I want to talk about the big, beautiful bill. So the one big beautiful bill, which isn’t officially named it anymore, but it’ll always be known that we talked about that a lot last week.

It did officially pass the house on Thursday afternoon, shortly after our episode release last week, and it did land on Donald Trump’s desk on July 4th, like he asked, and he did sign it into law on July 4th, and it really seems like the national narrative shifted where we would’ve been talking more about the big beautiful Bill.

But then that next morning, on July 5th. The news was, you know, completely covered with, with these floods and that’s kind of [00:41:00] taken over the main topic,

Conner Jones: yep, yep. Yeah. You know, it has been a kind of crazy weekend with that. And then also in the middle of all this holiday weekend, somebody leaked to Axios, an FBI document.

Axios gets all the leaks, man. They get, they, they’ve got some good journalists that, yeah, they’re getting in there. Anyways, it was about Jeffrey Epstein and it’s leaving maga, you know, we’ve talked about the MAGA divide recently, just in regards to. Global conflicts. Trump bombing. Iran was not exactly popular with maga.

Sending weapons again this week to Ukraine is not very popular with maga. The deficit rising in the beautiful Bill, the big, beautiful bill is not popular with MAGA. And now this Epstein client list that many people have. Been waiting to be released. People have always said that Jeffrey Epstein had a list of very powerful elites, Hollywood people, politicians over decades that were on this list and were supposedly his clients of sex trafficking, right?

Mm-hmm. And so there’s always been conspiracies around this of coverups and. Epstein was killed by somebody. All that well, the [00:42:00] FBI came out with this memo and said basically it was a suicide. Epstein killed himself and there is literally no client list, which is very much anti what a lot of these people who are now in power have said for the recent years, including Cash Patel, director of the F fbi, Dan Bonino, the deputy director of the FBI, on his show, his podcast for the past four years has been saying There’s a list.

There’s a list. There’s a list. We have to get the list Now that he’s in power and has the ability to get that list. He’s saying there’s not one. And then all the heat’s really come down on Attorney General, Pam Bondy. ’cause she was on TV just a few months ago saying the list is on my desk. And now she’s there is no list.

So it’s a big question mark. I’m not here to say if there is or isn’t a list. I’m just telling you what’s happening. And that is causing a divide and it’s putting a lot of pressure on Trump and a lot of his administration officials also, Elon Musk announced that he’s gonna launch a third party. This is going to be what he calls the America Party, and this is after he posted a poll on X, asking if people wanted a third party to break the two party system.

And after over a million votes on that [00:43:00] 65. Percent of the people said they do want that, and Musk said, you shall have it. So we’ll see what he comes back with. Trump’s not happy about it, he said it’s just going to cause complete and total disruption and chaos, which I kind of think is what Musk is actually going for there.

So we’ll see if this actually plays out. If a third party ends up coming about, if there was anybody, Micah that’s gonna do it, it’s gonna be the richest man on the planet. ’cause he should be able to actually fund something like this, 

Micah Tomasella: right? Yeah man. I mean, Elon’s wild man, but I mean ultimately he might be onto something.

He might be onto something with this one, right? I mean there there is just two platforms to represent. You know, everybody, the Total American thought and conscious, you know, with all of our citizens, with all of our diverse, you know, thoughts and beliefs and where we come from, there’s just two parties that we’re supposed to pick from.

I’m not sitting here and like fully complaining about that. But at the same time, if, if something legitimately could come from this and he’s willing to fund it, I’d be interested to see what happens. But let’s also talk about tariffs are back in the news again. So [00:44:00] Trump has made it clear that he will not.

Extend the August one tariff deadline. But then Scott Bessant comes in and he’s it’s negotiable. Scott Bessant, the Treasury secretary, I mean, he’s just done a really good job of he really calms the market, you know what I mean? He, he’s the adult in the room. Trump speaks, and then markets dip, and then Bessant speaks, and then.

Markets go right back up. But basically, you know, it, it’s a move that looks like it’s pressuring, you know, and pushing countries into finalizing trade deals. He’s signaling tariffs could be as steep as 50% on some countries and even on copper and potentially much higher on pharmaceuticals and stuff like that.

The timing and exact implementation is still up in the air, but it’s a clear use of leverage to seal agreements, but before the summer rats up. But whether it actually leads to better deals or just more international friction and more. Instability in the markets. We will see now Conner. I saw that the IRS now says that religious leaders can endorse political candidates without a threat [00:45:00] of losing their tax exempt status.

Conner Jones: What do you think about that? Yeah, so I, I saw a tweet, and I tend to agree with this. This is from the Atlantics McKay Coppins. He said, prediction. This will make little difference in American politics, but it will be terrible for churches. I tend to agree with that because I don’t imagine pastors or any religious leaders being behind the pulpit and making an endorsement is going to really sway that many people, but it will damage churches.

’cause I think politics should not be deeply ingrained in the pulpits in that sense. And so this just opens up the door for more passers to do that. Interesting. See, kind of say whatever 

Micah Tomasella: they want, right? If there was anything holding them back at the same time. I think my counter, that would be. The ones who were really wanting to do it, were already doing it anyway.

True. You know? Yeah. 

Conner Jones: They were just risking the tax exempt status. No one was ever really coming for them. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that’s a good point. Also, good news, the TSA Transportation Security Agency is phasing out the policy that requires flyers to take their shoes off at security. So you’re gonna be praise God to security at the airport.

Praise. So frustrating. That’s awesome. I’m [00:46:00] taking your shoes off. Now I paid $80 last year to get the TSA pre-check and now that, mm-hmm. This is coming in. I’m like, what did I pay for? That’ll still be shorter lines. Shorter lines, shorter lines I guess. But they’re partly shorter because you didn’t have to take your shoes off.

So it just moves faster. This is great news for everybody though. Hopefully security at airports just moves faster all around. 

Micah Tomasella: I hope.

Conner Jones: Last thing, Micah, before we go. Actually two last things. First off, Superman comes out this weekend and I hope you guys go see it and I hope Micah, you go see it. ’cause I know we wanted to talk about this one later on this summer.

So we gotta make an effort to go see this movie. I need to 

Micah Tomasella: figure out how to go see it. I’ve got young kids, it’s hard to go see movies, but you know, it really what. But it’s, you know, it’s just gotta be a movie that’s worth my time. I don’t know if I’m gonna go see it this weekend. I kind of like to see what the kind of consensus is across social media first, because if, you know, if the people not Rotten Tomatoes, not the critics, not New York Times, I’m not gonna trust their word, but if, you know, if the majority of people are like.

This was not very good. Then it’s just the, it’s just a movie. I can wait a couple months and then stream it. Yeah. But if [00:47:00] people are like, oh my goodness gracious, you gotta get out there and see it if it’s the last thing you do. Okay. Catch me at the theater. Catch me at the theater. We’ll get those kids babysat.

We’ll go see it. Alright. 

Conner Jones: All right. And then you know, the other thing I wanna mention here is, yeah, it’s the slowest time of sports. There’s only baseball on right now. You go to a, a sports restaurant with a lot of TVs. I love baseball, but it’s a tough time right now. HRA racing was on the screen. I was like, this is bad drag.

We’re in a bad spot here in July anyways. But it does mean that all these. Documentaries and shows are coming out. True. So we’ve got some football things coming up. True. One of the best times of the year is when the football shows start to drop, including this week, season two of quarterback dropped on Netflix.

Yes. That was several years ago. We followed like Patrick Mahomes, Kirk Cousins, and their lives. This year it’s gonna be Joe Burrow, Kirk Cousins again, and Jared Goff from the Detroit Lines. That came out on Tuesday. So this is actually super exciting. Oh, 

Micah Tomasella: it’s already out. Oh, okay. It’s already out. Yeah, it 

Conner Jones: dropped.

Yeah, man. Okay. Excited to watch that one. And then we got a Dallas Cowboy specific one. You know, we’re big Cowboys fans [00:48:00] here on this show. We are. We are. America’s team, the gambler and his cowboys is going to Netflix on August 19th. It’s about Jerry Jones and of course the Dallas Cowboys dynasty of the nineties.

That’s gonna be appointment television. I can’t even imagine how the interviews are gonna be on that one. So just that time of year and hard knocks will be around the corner. And then next thing you know, football season’s knocking on our door. 

Micah Tomasella: I mean, if that documentary is gonna focus on the nineties and.

Not be depressing. You know, as far as you know, we haven’t, we haven’t won anything in 29 years other than that. If we’re gonna focus on the beauty that was the nineties and the three Super Bowls that the Cowboys won, that’s gonna be great, but somehow, some way I feel like they’re gonna weave in. The disappointment that followed.

Yeah. We’ll see. It’s 

Conner Jones: gonna be about Jerry Jones and the business aspect and all that. Yeah. But I feel like it could be like the last dance that came out in 2020 where it just followed the nineties bulls and you just saw the success and all the incredibleness of that time. If we can get that with the Cowboys, I.

Micah Tomasella: That was one of the best documentaries I’ve ever seen, honestly, was Last Dance. But what was cool about that is, you know, it was kinda like [00:49:00] hidden footage and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. That they had rediscovered it and I’m, you know, I’m not super connected to the Chicago Bulls and I loved it. So this, this documentary about the Dallas Cowboys and Jerry Jones, it definitely could be very popular, very groundbreaking, 

Conner Jones: true.

Yeah. For sports fans all around, not just Cowboys fans. Yep. Guys. We know this was a heavy episode. We hope we were also able to present some other things going on in the news and in culture this week, and we will be back next week. But thank you for joining us today on this episode of Culture Brief.

All the articles, videos, donation, places that we’ve mentioned will be linked in the show notes. If you enjoyed today’s episode, please subscribe, rate or review the show and share it with a friend, and we will see you next Thursday. 

Micah Tomasella: See ya.