Why Trump banned CNN and MS Now, UN leaders can't agree & Ella Langley dethrones Mariah Carey | Ep. 87

Conner Jones: [00:00:01] Hi, I'm Conner Jones.

Josh Miller: [00:00:02] I'm Josh Miller.

Conner Jones: [00:00:03] And this is Culture Brief, a Denison Forum podcast where we navigate the constant stream of top stories and news, politics, sports, pop culture, and so much more. And we do it all from a Christian perspective. And Josh, my goodness, what a week it is on the world stage, uh, for our government, for multiple world governments. We got a lot to dive into. You want to give us kind of a quick rundown?

Josh Miller: [00:00:22] So much going on this week. We can't cover it all if we're going to keep it culture brief. Uh, but we uh, are talking about Trump and his war with the media today. A lot of stuff going on there. The UN General Convention is happening here in the US, out in New York, and a lot going on there. And then we've got some stuff to run through, uh, that's we're going to do some catch up on what's going on in the news generally as well. So it's going to be a good day. Let's jump into the brief.

Conner Jones: [00:00:47] The brief. All right. Yeah, you mentioned that. I mean, on Friday, President Trump said, hey, I'm banning some of the media outlets from the White House. They can't be around. So that specifically was targeted at Politico, CNN and MS Now, formerly MSNBC, they're now called MS Now. Uh, he posted on True Social Friday that he made the decision as a quote, result of their constant reporting fake news. Media outlets should not be able to constantly write or report fiction and lies when they're covering the president, the Trump administration or the United States of America. Other fake news media outlets to follow. So he's kind of got a a threat there of he's going to potentially ban some more. Um, journalists and crews from those media outlets were not actually kicked out on Friday, but when they showed up on Saturday morning to the White House to get in the door and to start covering the president and the White House for the day, they were all turned away at security and told to turn their badges in. They lost their press passes, um, and access to the premises of the White House. They were told to go outside. So they all started recording from across the street from the White House and explaining what happened. Um, and this week they have not been a part of the presidential, uh, reporting in terms of like actually being part of the actual press pool that follows the president. They have not gone to New York City with President Trump to the UN meetings. Um, they went to New York. They're reporting from there. They're still present there either getting in through the UN's press pool or through the mayor of New York City's press pool. Um, but they are not directly tied to traveling with the president as of the moment. Josh, initial just thoughts on this move from the president and these outlets?

Josh Miller: [00:02:19] Uh, man. Well, on one hand, it's not incredibly surprising. I think there's been threats towards this for quite some time. I mean, this, you know, the fake news language Trump has sort of repopularized, uh, over the years here. And so you kind of in one way are going, this isn't super surprising that this has escalated to this point. But I at face value, I don't love this, you know, the idea of, uh, you know, we live in a country where free press is really important. You know. It's part of I think making democracy work. And so at face value, this makes me a bit uncomfortable. Uh, and it makes me wonder, you know, as always, it depends on who the story is coming from here, you know, from Trump's side, he's not saying that, you know, he's not just saying that they are sort of doing things that are not favorable to him. He's talking talking about them being inaccurate, being completely fake. They on the other side would be just saying that this is news that just isn't favorable to Trump and he doesn't like that and so he's sort of punishing us for that. And so, uh, either way, it's just a mess. Uh, not a good look, I think for for anybody in this story.

Conner Jones: [00:03:24] Yeah, it, well, and you know, we're in a way a media outlet ourselves. The idea of being kicked out of a certain room or a certain, you know, edge in reporting just because somebody does not like your reporting is not great. Theodore Roosevelt even talked about that after he was president. He said something along the lines of it's unamerican to not be able to report on the president just because you don't like it. And he was talking specifically towards the president at the time, which was Woodrow Wilson, uh, and the way he didn't like the way how media at the time was reporting his entrance into World War I. Well, Theodore Roosevelt had his thoughts on that. So it's always been a thing. Presidents don't like media coverage of them a lot of the times. They like some, you know, especially when they're on your, if it's favorable to you or your party or whatever, but every president has this issue, um, where they have to to go up against media that they feel is targeting them in some way.

Josh Miller: [00:04:14] Which seems kind of healthy in a way, you know.

Conner Jones: [00:04:15] It is healthy. Yeah. I well, I believe it's healthy and it's part of why the Constitution in the first amendment protects one, free speech and two, the freedom of the press. The founders knew that press would bring accountability. It would help prevent corruption. Uh I'm not saying that's what's happening here with corruption and all that. I'm just saying that's the intention behind the first amendment. That's also what these three news outlets are putting in their joint lawsuit against the Trump administration. So they they got to work immediately on suing so that they could get access back to the White House. Um, in the suit, they called it a blatant violation of the first amendment. Um, and they said that the Constitution does not allow a president or any government official to deprive the press of their first amendment rights and liberty and property interests with no notice or process based solely on his dislike of the content or their reporting. Um, so then on Monday what followed when, you know, the week kind of got started again was CNN was the designated network for what's called pool coverage. Uh, this means it was their day at the White House of the week. You know, that this was their day that they had been pre-selected for to provide the audio and visual of Trump at the White House. Uh, they that means their cameras and their boom mics and their microphones are the ones following Trump around the White House. They're going into the Oval office, they're going out to the helipad, all of that stuff. Um, it was their day, but they had been removed from the press coverage on Monday. So they were not able to fulfill this duty and the four other networks that the White House uses, which is ABC, NBC, CBS and Fox News, all joined CNN in solidarity by suspending coverage of the president on Monday. They did not do their official coverage. None of them were willing to fill in the pool, uh, spot there. They were not going to bring their cameras or their audio into the White House because they wanted to stand with CNN and in protest essentially. Uh, even Fox News, who is like Trump's, you know, that's his favorite network and they really are the biggest competitor with CNN, right? They stood in solidarity and they were like, we don't agree with this decision.

Josh Miller: [00:06:08] Well, Fox News has some experience with this, right? From I think in the Obama administration, they were got kind of under attack from the Obama administration because again, Fox News would kind of lean the opposite way of Obama at the time. I forget exactly the details of that, but they they sort of got isolated from that. And again, the news media, all the organizations came together and solidarity at that time as well.

Conner Jones: [00:06:28] That was on a slightly more minor scale. The Obama administration tried to prevent them from getting an interview, I believe. Uh, like they didn't want them to talk about the Affordable Care Act at the time in some sort of interview. And the other networks were like, well, that's not fair. They should be granted an interview too. Uh, so this is bigger. This is an outright like you're not allowed. It feels like a ban, kind of an outright ban. It is. I mean, that's the word that was even used in the announcement is it's a ban. Um, so, yeah, but the fact that the five networks are working together to kind of protest this and try to leverage what they do have in terms of power of like, okay, you're going to kick us out. Well, then we're just not even going to make it possible for you to be seen or heard. Uh, and this is also the president who loves oddly enough, he just loves cable TV. He knows that a lot of people don't even watch these cable networks anymore, but it's what he watches and he likes to see coverage of himself. And so they know that too and they're like, well, then we're just going to pull coverage of you. Um, we'll talk about you, but we're not going to follow you in every move that you make. So they also all released together a the five networks a joint statement, which is pretty rare. They said the public has a vital interest in receiving accurate independent information about its government. No administration should restrict a news organization because it objects to its reporting. Uh, this lack of that pool coverage on Monday was extremely noticeable. And Josh, you and I were laughing about this before we started recording here. When Trump was honestly, he was launching his new helipad. They built a new helipad in the back of the White House, uh, because there's a new helicopter about to be used as Marine One and that helicopter will scorch the grass if it lands on the grass, which has always been what the president's helicopters do. So they built a a, you know, an actual cement, uh, pad back there and Trump was cutting the ribbon before he took off on the helicopter to go leave for New York for these UN meetings. And the helicopter is extremely loud as always. And usually there are boom mics up to the president's mouth so that you can hear what he's actually saying. That was not the case on Monday and all you see on these videos and I'll I'll put the um, video link, I'll probably from Twitter or something. I'll put it in our show notes if you want to go watch this video because it's just kind of comical. He's just screaming into the void. Um, he's talking and you can't hear a thing he is saying with all these construction workers around him. Not a thing can be heard on the TV broadcast. Um, even one network that was kind of trying to carry this, which is a conservative network called Newsmax, the host cut into the awkward silence about 30 seconds in when they realized you couldn't hear anything and she said, there's no microphone because the pool cameras aren't there. So maybe this is one example of it backfiring just a little bit. The ramifications are here. You can't hear what the president is saying. Um, which is just true. You cut the cameras and and the mics. It was pretty comical to watch because you know Trump loves to be able to kind of share his his thoughts and sort of tout the accomplishments and things like that and it just fell flat because you're just watching him scream and yell, you know, trying to promote this thing and nobody knows what's going on. No, and it's yeah, all his arm motions and everything he's normally doing, but you can't hear his voice. It's just yeah. Uh, definitely interesting. Uh, the Trump administration says they are not infringing on the network's freedom of speech or freedom of press. They're simply just banning them from the special access they are not constitutionally obligated to receive. So that's their argument here. Uh, even Secretary of State Marco Rubio this week said, we're not closing CNN. The the uh, there are a bunch, sorry, there are not a bunch of police officers or soldiers kicking down the doors of MS now and arresting people and unplugging it from the grid. They're just not allowed to work from the workspace at the White House. Vice President Vance said it's about basic fairness. They can still report. They still have access to free speech. They're just not going to get an office in the White House anymore. So that's the argument is we're not actually infringing on any rights here. We're just revoking their access to this building. Uh, but that is a public building. It is a taxpayer owned building. And so the taxpayers have a right for our, you know, the freedom of press here for the press to be in there. Um, and all of that. So I was curious, Josh, is there any precedence for this? The answer is kind of. Uh, and you mentioned the Fox News thing from 2009, but more importantly, in 1977, the DC Court of Appeals ruled that denying a reporter access to the White House does infringe on freedom of the press. And if the White House denies access to a journalist, it must one, inform the person of the reason for the denial. Two, give the applicant an opportunity to respond and provide a final written statement detailing the reasons access was denied. Um, and then the court also prohibited content-based criteria for press pass issuance, meaning access cannot be denied based on what a journalist reports. Um, which I think is an important thing there because if the argument is there's misbehavior, some sort of thing where they lose credibility or, you know, safety or whatever. Yeah, there needs to be some like to stand on here, but if it's just we disagree with the content, that's a little bit of a harder argument. Exactly. So, you know, there's several lawyers that I was reading their their now, I'm not a law professor here, but I read several law professors and they're like, yeah, the judges are going to probably stand with the networks on this as it goes through the court system and this lawsuit. They judges tend to to lean more towards that freedom of the press argument. Um, Trump did try to ban Jim Acosta in 2018. He was a CNN White House correspondent at the time. Uh, but a district court judge found that a lapse in due process at the time, including the lack of those written standards that's required from that 1977 ruling and a lack of notice that's also required from that ruling to Acosta and the White House's uh failure to inform him of its reasoning, that made the decision at the time in 2018 unconstitutional and so they were ordered to restore Acosta's press pass. So that happened to one journalist, not the full network, uh, and it it ended up getting ruled back to you got to let him back in the building.

Josh Miller: [00:11:58] Yeah, Acosta was one of the ones that really took the brunt of Trump's initial fake news narrative that he brought back out. You know, he wasn't the first to use it, but uh, Acosta was getting the brunt of those fake news, all the fake journalists. I almost think that's when he came up with the term was like when he was like when Trump was battling with Acosta and they were like they would get into yelling matches in the White House press briefing room. That's why they ultimately they were like, he doesn't treat the president with respect. Um, and so that's what led to that whole thing.

Conner Jones: [00:12:24] Uh, yeah, Cornell Law Professor GS Hans told the Washington Post that fundamentally federal actions against reporting like the ones that the White House has repeatedly made are unlikely to get the benefit of the doubt from most judges. So that's what like I was saying again, it feels like this one will go through the court system and most likely the networks will get access back. Now, it has been said, uh, that they may get access back to the White House, but not certain spaces of the White House, like the Oval office or Air Force One, which is an extension of the White House. They may not be allowed on that plane and that could be considered personal uh space for the president uh as a working office as opposed to the building of the White House. Um and then also Maralago where Trump goes often on the weekends down at his Florida home as a personal space. So, yeah, the timing here just all around is interesting. It comes on the heels of uh press secretary Caroline Levit, she just left that position there at the White House and she had a great relationship with everyone in the press. They all actually really liked her. When she stepped down, a lot of them, even from these networks were like, man, we're going to miss her. She was she was very accessible to us. She was nice and kind to us. She was not uh extremely argumentative. She defended the president's positions, but always came across as somebody that they could get information from uh and and learn about Trump's positions from, right? So, I feel like she could have served as a mediator this week. Um

Josh Miller: [00:13:38] Yeah, maybe it's just kind of I can handle them type deal that was or a buffer of some sort for him in that case.

Conner Jones: [00:13:44] Yeah, right now there's not actually a press secretary. Uh, we're kind of in this limbo mode where nobody's been announced and so maybe that person comes in and can kind of restore some trust or relationship uh there, but we'll see. On top of this, it's also just been a week of L's like for Donald Trump, honestly. Uh and I'm saying this not from a any sort of political perspective from all we're a non-partisan ministry. It's more so just like the fact of the matter is he is getting reporting against him because there's just things not going his way including like the Fed raised interest rates last week against his wishes. The Supreme Court rejected his plan to restrict mail in ballots last week. A federal judge blocked him from putting his name on the Kennedy Center in Washington DC. Uh, Republican candidates running for Congress and Senate, some who are currently in Congress and are running for re-election, several of them have cut ads standing against Trump. Like they're like, I don't support his ice raids. I don't support his war in Iran. So it's like his own party's in a way turning against him.

Josh Miller: [00:14:38] Well, the polling has looked pretty bad. And obviously you have to take all of that with a grain of salt, but the polling is look it looks worse than it's ever been for him. Uh, and so I think that's people are starting to create some distance uh around him in general, even people who typically would sort of back him up.

Conner Jones: [00:14:53] This is not just a Trump thing. This happens with presidents every time midterms come around as people have to distance themselves from the unpopular parts of of the president's agenda, right? And then specifically last week was when gallons of gas hit their highest mark, $1.24 more than it was a year ago and diesel hit record high. So all of that, it just the timing here is not so coincidental. He's getting bad reporting from some of these, like bad reporting in his eyes from some of these outlets and so yeah, he's like, well, then I just don't want to hear it. I don't want to see it. I'm going to ban them. Um, now we could easily look at this all and say, well, aren't there like a dozen media outlets that cover the White House or, you know, tons more that will step in and fill the uh spot and say, hey, well then what's the big deal here? Um, I would say these are some of the arguments being made about why cutting even networks you might not agree with is bad news. Like maybe you don't like Politico or CNN or MS now. They are too far left for you. I totally understand that. Others will be too far right in the future, right? That's just the the nature of the game here, which is what the warnings are here. One, a warning would be less journalism means less accountability uh and more opportunities for corruption, not just in this White House, but any White House in the future. Uh and banning reporters also just has a chilling effect on other reporters. It makes them maybe feel more timid to report the way that they feel is factual or accurate because they're worried about getting banned themselves and they need access to keep their jobs. Uh and then adversarial press serves as a check and balance and it's fundamental to governing, which is what we said about the first amendment a minute ago.

Josh Miller: [00:16:16] The other thing I'd just add there is we always have to be careful around the things that we implement while we have the ability to do so. You know, the the White House, you know, the Trump is in a place of power right now. Republicans have been in a place of power. And so to implement rules that serve to benefit them now could always come back to bite them later. So you think about maybe the next administration or the one after, maybe leans the other way. And so what? Do we now do a swip, you know, a little uh swap here? And now, you know, Fox News is out and MS now is back in or CNN's back in. We have to think about the long-term consequences of decisions and precedents we make as well. And so I have some concerns not only in the just the action taken today, but what does that look like long-term in terms of this uh kind of vacillation back and forth in terms of, well, who gets access today because of this person now being in power versus another. And so in general, I think we have to watch out for those types of things when it comes to local government, uh comes to things that even our uh we would do in the name of uh promoting Christianity. How do we protect Christianity and uh, you know, freedom of religion in our country? There are things that we would maybe want to set to guard against Christianity in our country now that could if we're not careful be used against us later. And so we always have to have this longer term view in mind.

Conner Jones: [00:17:35] It's all about precedent. What's the precedent that is being set here? Like if you realize if do you realize what the long-term effects could be? I don't think a lot of people make decisions without thinking about the long-term effects sometimes. Uh, particularly people in power. This is not even just a government thing. I mean sports teams when coaches have banned outlets from reporting on their on their on their sports team. If you're an NFL reporter and your outlet gets banned, that never looks good for a coach or an organization. It's like, well, then you're clearly trying to hide something or you just don't like the way it's being reported. It's it it tends to backfire a lot of times. Um, so we'll just see the long-term uh play here, how these networks go about it, how the lawsuit goes and what the White House does. But I did want to just point out a couple things here from a spiritual perspective. Uh, Dr. Jim Dennison wrote about this whole, you know, just saga on Tuesday's daily article. I loved this part. He said, when the media disappoints us, we can try to ignore their reporting. When the president of the United States disappoints us, we can try to ignore what is reported about him. But when God disappoints us, it's hard to ignore God. Which just begs the question, have you ever doubted or questioned God? If you have, you you're definitely not alone. I mean, Josh, you've probably doubted God. I've doubted God. Um, it's it's a real thing that happens. We're not the only ones either. Scripture tells us about several people who have doubted God and his character. Job questioned God's character in the midst of his suffering. He said in Job 3:11, why do you hide your face and consider me your enemy? Peter denied Jesus, probably from a place of doubt. Uh, right? His heart was doubting. He was like, who is this Jesus that I've followed all along? He's not doing what I thought he would do, which is take over and be complete king of Israel in a in a worldly sense and militarily take over. Peter denied and Peter doubted. Um, and he just could not grasp what God's actual plan would entail at that moment. Later on, Peter's going to be used as part of that plan in incredible ways, but in the moment, he was doubting. Thomas, Thomas is called literally Thomas the doubter, doubting Thomas, which is such an unfortunate nickname. Yeah, what a bummer to get that on your reputation. I mean, doubting Thomas, but uh Thomas ended up being a great faithful servant of the Lord, but he did at the time after Jesus died, he said, unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were and put my hand into the side, I will not believe. But thankfully, Josh, I would just point out that God's plans are better than our own. Um, they always are. Even when he doesn't do what we want or doesn't or does what we don't want him to do, uh, well, we can lament that, but his plan is still better. But lament is a thing. Job lamented, King David lamented. There's an entire book of the Bible called Lamentations focusing on the destruction of Jerusalem. Uh, Jesus lamented himself. He exclaimed from the cross and questioned, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? That's a lament. So we can express our lamentations to God like, God, why? We can question things, but we must understand that he will always have a better answer. Uh, his plans and his answer is better than our own. And thankfully, he meets those questions with grace, um, and his answers and plans consistently remind us of his power and wisdom. Yeah. I would just leave us with this that Psalm 23:4 reminds us that even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me, your rod and your staff, they comfort me. So this week, you know, we can doubt the media all we want. We can doubt a president, we can doubt a government, all that we want because they're going to fail us at times. The media will fail. The president will fail. Our government will fail. You can doubt God all you want, but you got to know he's not going to fail. He will not ever fail you. You will walk through trials, you will walk through suffering, but he's not going to fail you. He is always with you. He is always there. Trust him in that.

Josh Miller: [00:21:08] That's so good, Connor. Yeah, you know, I was you've had plenty of seasons of doubt in my own life and what's always stuck with me is the this idea of it's not that God is afraid of our doubt or can't handle our doubt and he's not going to even judge us or shame us for that. But my my thought personally is how do you lean into him with that doubt versus lean away. And so like, where are you facing? So it's not that the doubt itself is some sort of catastrophic thing. What actually causes the damage is do you now turn away from God and go, I am doubting and so God, I'm not going to even I'm not even going to try to lean in. Or do you face him in your doubt and go, okay, I'm going to bring this doubt to you. Help help my unbelief. Uh, and and let him work through that with you. If you still have that posture of, you know, and that's what we see in scripture. Hey, God, I'm doubting you. I don't understand this, but they're taking that doubt to him rather than letting that doubt be the thing that takes them away. Uh, and that becomes the difference in whether or not God can work in that space and and restore the relationship.

Conner Jones: [00:22:12] It's a really good point. I mean, even Thomas, like you can point back to that. Like, yeah, he's doubting, but when he is faced with God, God, Jesus reveals himself. He could have had the opportunity to be like, well, I still don't believe. Or he said, I now believe and I will follow you. You are my Lord and savior. That's our opportunity too. That's a really great point, Josh, is how do we actually what do we do with that? What do you do with it? Yeah, yeah. And a lot of times we're harder on ourselves than I think God is on on us with that. So, uh, well, let me jump into the next story. I could talk about that for a long time. And there's a lot of stuff going on right now. Crazy week. Uh, but the UN General debate began at uh at the UN headquarters in New York this week. Uh, this is kind of the the big week of the year. You get all of the presidents, prime ministers, foreign ministers, senior representatives, they all come, gather, uh, 193 member countries use this time to explain how their government, how their country sees the world's biggest problems and what they really want other nations to to do about it. Um, the the theme of this year is called restoring trust, managing transformation, a United Nation that a United Nations that delivers for all. Which restoring trust, kind of a fairly self-aware statement. Uh, and I think I don't know that they're necessarily trying to imply that it's restoring trust in the UN. I think they're implying that it's restoring trust with one another, but you kind of can read that both ways a little bit. Uh, but it really is this time for these countries really to kind of lay out their priorities and to try and get everybody to get on the same page. But this has become a bit of a laughable gathering in some ways in terms of it the the question of is this actually effective? No. No, yeah, no, it would be the short answer to that. So, I wanted to, you know, this is a a lengthy week with a lot of speeches. I'm not going to go through all of it. And in fact, while we're recording right now, there are more speeches from more leaders going on. There'll be more throughout the week. And so I'm not going to go through all of that, but I did notice an interesting theme that sort of stood out for me in these, uh, as we as I was kind of looking at all of these speeches that happened yesterday. So I wanted to go through a few of these and then talk about uh kind of some takeaways here. So, uh, the UN Secretary General, Antonio Guterres, uh, opened up the uh the debate there with sort of a warning that the fault lines are widening. You know, okay, obvious, right? A little bit of an obvious statement. Uh, but he's talking about war, inequality, climate change, AI, and he's using those as sort of the four tests of how power is used. Uh, so which I thought was interesting now AI being in the conversation here. We're used to talking about war and inequality in the UN. Climate change has been a heavy conversation for a long time, but AI is now uh one of the top four. It's crazy. I mean, it's it's just it's that well, and they probably used to say in like the, you know, mid-century, uh, nuclear weapons was probably one of the things. And now it's like, well, we've kind of handled the nuclear weapon talk before. We got to focus on this new thing. Yeah, yeah. So I thought that was interesting. His line that really stood out to me was that competition does not have to mean confrontation. There's this like tension in all of this. You have all of these countries that in some ways are competitors. Some ways are all wanting to be at the top of the food chain in all of these spaces. And so he's trying to make this distinction here that yes, we compete and yes, we all are going to advocate for our own position, but it does not have to lead to confrontation. Uh, Brazil's president, I'm going to try and not to butcher this this name here. I want to call him Lula, but I'm not going to not going to take the cop out. Brazil's president, Luiz Inacio Lula de Silva. Hey, I didn't get the like pronunciation perfect, but down in Brazil, they really do just call him Lula. That's what it goes by. Yeah, just a long name for pronunciation or not. Uh, but but he really took a shot at the UN and said that the security council has been paralyzed. Credibility has never been lower, said they've not been taking enough action and pressed the leaders there to return to diplomacy. And his line that stood out to me was he said, in an interdependent world, leaders have to reconcile the interests of their own countries with the interests of humanity. So again, this tension around I am here for my country. However, how do we look at this bigger picture here and work together?

Conner Jones: [00:26:27] Well, and that's especially a statement right now that people are talking about with AI, right? Like if AI is really going to destroy the world, maybe we should work together and forget our own personal, you know, national interests and like try to find a solution here. That's just one thing, but this has been something that's been said that they've been talking about this for a long time, like climate change too. Like if climate change is going to destroy the world or or many different areas of the world, we need to work together. That's what they've been saying for for decades. But they don't really do that very well. That's right. Um, that's because everybody does come with their own national interest at hand. And then it's also just a cultural clash. All these different nations like you're asking people from around the world to work together and everybody sees the world differently. That's right. Um, so and then you got you got people that are like access powers there. actual enemies of a lot of these countries. Like literally Iran has a delegation there and Cuba has a delegation there and North Korea, I actually I don't think North Korea does. They're not part of the UN. I don't believe they're there. Um, but like Russia can send a delegation and they're all in this room together. Like we're there's countries literally at war sitting next to each other.

Josh Miller: [00:27:28] Yeah, it's it is pretty unique in that space. This is the only real time that you see this happen. And so it is I think the the uh intent here is super positive. Now the whether or not the actual application of it is effective is another question. Uh, but it is fascinating. You know, I'll get to Trump in a moment, but you know, as Trump spoke yesterday as well, uh, you know, you have Iran delegation in the room. Uh, and so he's talking, uh, I'll just get to him right now. He's on one hand touting what the US has done in Iran, in Venezuela, talking about how, you know, we're using our power to uh kind of advance American interests. At the same time, he's saying, you know, we could we we want to work out peace with Iran. However, if we don't, we could annihilate them quickly. And so these guys are I these guys are in the room listening to this as he's talking about annihilating, you know, wiping their country off the face of the map. Um, it's got to be at minimum pretty uncomfortable if uh if not just aggravating, you know. cut through the tension in the air in that room. Oh my gosh, yeah. Which the Iranian delegation was meeting not with Trump specifically, but I believe Marco Rubio and some others met with the Iranian delegation at some point this week to discuss next steps and finding a deal. I mean, but we're we're in month what? Seven of finding a deal. So there's been a lot of talking. It's good to see them talking again because it seemed to be at an impass here, but yeah, a couple more just real quick. So, uh, Emmanuel Macron from France spoke as well. He talked about this tension between force versus international order. You know, I think a really a call out to the US in some ways, just going unilaterally into a place to sort of uh, you know, initiate your will, uh to make stuff happen versus, hey, can we work together on a level where there's cooperation? And then you had you had Jordan's King Abdullah II, uh, really was critical of uh Israel, uh what's happened in Gaza Gaza and the West Bank, while also was uh sort of fluffing up Trump a little bit, talking about the peace he's pursuing there. Uh, talked about suffering in Sudan and Ukraine. And they they were kind of uh he was kind of positioning them as sort of this, we're ready to work with anybody. If you're up for peace, we're we're in for it and let's work toward peace, while also kind of hedging his bets around, hey, we're also going to protect ourselves.

Conner Jones: [00:29:47] Right. Well, that's the thing about all of this, right? Like let's work together, but also we we will kick you out to the dust if you start to step on us in any way possible, right? Like

Josh Miller: [00:29:58] Yeah, yeah. So the thing that really I wanted to go through all of those just to call out this common theme that I noticed is that if you look at sort of the thread of what everybody wants, everybody would say they want the same thing. We want peace, we want cooperation, we want there to be, you know, we want people to be able to eat. We want, you know, people to not be worried about their safety. We we want to figure out how to work together. And yet, they can't figure it out. Uh, and yet there's still this division. You know, we can use the same words, talk about security and trust, but yet we can mean different things. And there's just this huge gap between identifying a shared problem and agreeing on a shared action or solution. And so it was fascinating to me to watch that. You could probably take pieces of each speech and go, yeah, everybody would agree on those things, but yet there's this still this gap around, well, how do we still come together? Anyway, I wanted to see if you had any thoughts about sort of those different approaches and and specifically, why do you think it's so difficult for these countries that would agree on these shared principles or goals? Why is it so difficult for them to find a way to come together on these things?

Conner Jones: [00:31:07] I mean, it it's, okay, why is it so difficult for a sports, let's just take an NFL team for instance. Why is it so difficult to win a Super Bowl? One, because it's just a difficult game to play and you're going to play the most talented people on the opposing side of the field, right? But two, because you're asking 53 grown adult men to come across to the same vision and goal and work together as a team. The teams that can pull that off are usually the ones that have the most success. Not just the most talented teams, sometimes not the most talented team makes it further because they all recognize we have to put ourselves to the side and work together to achieve this one goal together. You're asking 193 leaders from around the globe to do the same thing, to, hey, let's work as a team here. And like we already said, some of these people are literal direct enemies. And then there's just different governing styles. I mean, yeah, Cuba is going to have a communist governing style. So they're going to see their path towards achieving these priorities and these goals way different than all the Western nations in the world that have democracies, right? So it's just difficult. Um, it it's it's a culture clash, it's a government style clash, it's an authoritarian clash from some of these countries. It's a military clash. Um, everything always sounds great in a room. This happens all of us when we work our jobs. Some things are said in a meeting like, this sounds great. But then the actual part of, well, now go achieve it. What are the action items here? That's the hard part, right? Is some big lofty goal, like the UN always likes to set. And honestly, the UN has lost its status in the world order because they don't achieve a lot of these goals. Um, and their security system has declined and they don't have as much support from the United States as they used to. I mean, the US has been the backbone of the UN for decades. Like without the US's support as the UN security system and the financial backbone behind this this whole organization, it doesn't exist. I mean, Europe really likes the UN and a lot of other nations do too, but it really is, I feel like when these countries come into this meeting room and these leaders give speeches and they're all meeting, it's a great time for them to make meet and make side deals. Uh, even Trump's been meeting with the Venezuelan, the new Venezuelan president. He's meeting with Chi this week. Side deals can be made country for country, but like the global world order, like let's have one big initiative and solve something together. It's hard because humanity is that's the way we are. Like we just struggle to um put ourselves to the side. We struggle to achieve things together because we're fallen. I mean, that's just the nature of the the game here is every single person in that room is a fallen human being. Every single person in this room, which is just you and me, are fallen human beings, right? It's it's hard to make things happen when we're not on the same page. But at least when I think about like our faith, when we're all on a church building together and we're trying to achieve something together as a church because we have one main goal, which is to spread the gospel. That is a totally different style of goal that invigorates a group of people towards some shared mission, vision and goal. That's what we get to see with our faith. Um, this is not a faith-based approach in the UN building.

Josh Miller: [00:34:10] That's right. Well, and that's really where I wanted to take this too. And the other thing I wanted to to mention is you also have so much history between these countries too of broken promises, broken relationships. Yeah, adversarial relationships. And so you bring in like relationship baggage. We've all been there. Broken trust. Man, how much is it is that to overcome? Even coming in clean to something, it could be hard to to settle and agree on some of these complex issues when everybody has their own sort of priorities and perspectives. But then you add decades of baggage, relational baggage uh to that, what a mountain to overcome there. And so, but yeah, it is it isn't particularly shocking. Like nobody's surprised by going, you know, watching the UN and going, another year where we're not quite sure that anything's going to happen. Sure. Uh, but it did make me think about the church uh and how it's one thing for for there to be sort of division, disunity in the secular space. Everybody we are as humans inherently selfish. You know, myself included. We we are inherently going to look out for what's best for us. And when everybody does that, whether it's on a football team or in business or anything else or nations, it creates division because you're like, hey, if if working with you is going to cause me to compromise what I want for myself, you have to figure out a way to overcome that. So it's I'm not super surprised to see this play out in the sort of the secular space for lack of a better term or just out in the world. But it does break my heart and I've been thinking about this a lot this year. It does break my heart to see this type of division and these factions sort of take place within the church. And this can happen across denominations. This can happen within the church around your political positioning. You know, maybe we go to the same church and yet I'm a Republican and you're a Democrat and so we cannot come together because of the differences uh in our political viewpoints. And what makes me so sad and I think is so uh really uh the antithesis of what Jesus has come for is to see this disunity and division within the church. That yes, we do have differences. Yes, we do have uh theological differences, political differences, things that we think are, you know, varying levels of importance, our sort of list of things that matter in the world and everyone has different priorities. Yet as Christians, we do have this sort of center to return to. You know, God uh Paul calls the gospel uh the a matter of first importance is what he calls it in 1 Corinthians first uh 1 Corinthians 15. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received that Christ died for our sins in according accordance with the scriptures. So he's not trying to sort of say, hey, there's not differences or things that aren't just not aren't important at all, but he's saying what should be of first importance is rallying around the gospel. And then you get Ephesians 4 talking about one body, one spirit, one hope, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God, God and Father. Again, talking about the the gospel, uh, and also talking and talking about us being the body of Christ, this importance of us maintaining unity. And he talks about it with humility, gentleness, patience, bearing with one another in love. Uh, I don't think he'd have to lay all that out if there wasn't this propensity for us to be divided. You know.

Conner Jones: [00:37:36] No, the the devil wants that division. He thrives on it. His whole goal is to rip apart the church and drive these dividing wedges into our unity. Like you're saying, like God has laid out the plan here. The devil will try to rip it up. He wants us to argue with each other. He wants us to be on different pages to not have that shared vision and goal and mission, right? That is his whole thing. He wants that for these nations too. The devil loves when there's there's things that are causing chaos and destruction in the world, but he really loves it in our church. He wants our faith to be questioned. He wants our congregations to split. He wants our shared just mission towards the gospel to not exist. But man, God is so much bigger and more powerful and better uh and the gospel is so much richer than the devil will ever be. And so the fact that we get to share that gospel and live in it and place our foundation and our hope in it, man, that beats out the division of the devil all day. The devil will succeed in some ways, but we get to fight back against that with the power of the gospel and of God behind us.

Josh Miller: [00:38:39] That's right. And I just kind of want to challenge us today, whether you're, you know, watching, listening, that this is of first importance for us, that that coming around the gospel matters. And I think sometimes we just get comfortable with being a bit divided. Uh, that's like, it's just not worth the effort. You know, you think about the you got to have some of these world leaders showing up to the UN and going, what what's the point of this? A lot of travel, a lot of chaos, got to do the speech, uh, got to do these meetings and nothing's going to happen. There's got to be a little bit of just exhaustion around this. And so, you know, it'd be easy to lean out. I think we can kind of do this in the in the Christian space as well. It we're just divided. What's going to change? But I don't think that Jesus gives us an option outside of pursuing unity as the body of Christ. You know, he talks about in in John 17:20, uh, that he says, I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they they also may be in us, catch this, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. And so he's talking about us becoming one as the body of Christ. And he ties that to if the world is going to believe in Jesus, they're going to do that as a result or because of the unity that they see within the body of Christ. And so I don't think this is a sort of a secondary, put on the back burner, kind of icing on the cake part of our faith that man, it'd be nice if we were all, you know, unified as the body of Christ. I think this is central to actually the gospel going out into the world and making an impact and transforming our world is us seeking unity. And so one thing I wanted to say about that and we'll kind of wrap this segment up is, I don't know if you've heard of the fundamental attribution error before. Sounds familiar. It's probably you've probably heard it before, at least talked about in some way, maybe not by the term, but it's the the tendency to overlook circumstances when judging other people. So the idea being, uh, so we kind of judge ourselves by our circumstance and like all the surrounding context, and we just judge other people simply by their actions. So like, if I'm in, uh, like driving down the highway in my car and I cut somebody off, maybe accidentally or whatnot, I'm going to go, man, I'm just having a bad day, distracted, a lot going on in my life. And so I I give myself some grace and context. Now, if somebody else cuts me off, I'm going to be like, that is the worst person in the world. He's a terrible human being, you know. Uh, so and so it's this essentially this gap between how we would, uh, attribute, you know, the the facts and circumstances in our own life versus what's happening in other people. And so I just want to, uh, maybe give us the challenge and and for you those who are listening and watching today that if you are looking at other people and and I would encourage you to watch out for this. So if you are looking at the world and are quick to judge somebody by their actions while you may be, uh, more graceful in the way that you approach what's happening in your own life, let's look for those gaps. Let's look for ways to to show grace. Let's look for ways to step in and lean into relationship. We can't let these things going on in the world divide us as the body of Christ. Yes, we can disagree. Yes, we can admit it's going to be difficult for us to overcome some of these differences and these gaps, but we we can't settle for division. Uh, and if we are going to go and make an impact in the world as the body of Christ, we have to be willing to step into something that can be uncomfortable for us. And so if if you're, uh, someone that's maybe pulled away from someone over a disagreement, I just ask you, what would it look like to take that first step toward maybe a conversation this week? Where has maybe politics divided your family or relationships? Where has maybe, uh, disagreement over whatever in your relationship caused you to walk away, especially from a fellow believer, would you take that to the Lord this week and go, God, can you help me find a way to lean in? Uh, kind of like we talked about with doubt. Is there a way instead of letting that division linger and just sort of turning our backs to the person, is there a way for us to sort of turn toward that person, turn toward the Lord and ask that God would work in those places of division and bring restoration in in relationships. If we can do figure this out as the body of Christ, if we can model this, unity, relational repair, forgiveness and grace, how much more of a shining light can the church be uh in our world and our and our country in a time where man, we need it more than ever.

Conner Jones: [00:43:12] Yeah. It's a good point, Josh. Uh, the devil, man, he drives division and doubt. Um, and so this week, let's let's refuse to let him do that in our lives. Um, whether it is politics or church or what not. So, appreciate that, Josh. And yeah, I would just encourage us all to also be praying through the UN meetings. Like, you know, we're saying there's probably not a lot that is going to happen this year, but it could. Um, so let us pray for these world leaders. These are people who have a lot on their plates and they have a lot of influence and impact on our world. And so whether that's with trying to solve world hunger or if that's trying to solve the AI thing, just pray for them and then pray for the leaders of, um, the United States and China as they meet this week too with President Chi coming over here to meet with Trump at the White House and then everybody else. High stakes conversations. High stakes conversations between those two leaders, but also everyone else in their delegations and the foreign ministers and everybody that's going to be having conversations there that will have an impact, uh, specifically on the United States and China. So, be praying for that. Okay, a couple other things to hit on here. Paramount settled their lawsuit with 12 attorney generals to finally get their merger through with Warner Brothers. So you are going to see Paramount Warner Brothers, uh, combined here probably in October is when it's expected to go through. And yeah, that does mean that Paramount/CBS will be taking over a handful of things including their movie studio, their TV studio, their big lots out in Hollywood, but then specifically the thing that just speaking of driving a wedge, drove a wedge for a lot of people was that means they're going to own CNN, a network we've talked about a lot today. Uh, but CBS Paramount is now a little more Trump friendly because it's owned by the Ellison family who bought the whole network last year. Um, and they're now merging with Warner Brothers. So people are worried about are there going to be too much Trump influence on CNN? Is there going to be job cuts and all that? There likely will be. Uh, they're saying that the combination of the two companies will be bring the quote word that everybody uses is synergies, which a lot of times means, um, big time cuts to different departments and all of that. So we'll see what happens there. There's a lot that's going to come out of that over the next few months and the next couple years. You're going to see a lot more movies combined, you're going to see more IP combined, um, different franchises combined. It's going to be very interesting. We'll see what happens with many different networks and even sports rights and all of that that comes out of that. Um, and then Josh, we just have to mention Ella Langley's choosing Texas. I talked about this a few months ago with Micah. Um, that song is really good and it was our like song of the summer. It's now officially the longest running Billboard Hot 100 number one song at 23 weeks, which I think when we talked about it a few months ago, it was it was at like 16 or 17 weeks and we're like, is it going to break the record?

Josh Miller: [00:45:40] It's amazing any song can last that long.

Conner Jones: [00:45:42] It's insane. Uh, it's broken the record. So is this the most popular song?

Josh Miller: [00:45:46] Bye bye Mariah, right?

Conner Jones: [00:45:47] Bye bye Mariah. All I want for Christmas is you is only made it 22 weeks, which, you know, it's been surpassed, which 20 there's not even 22 weeks in the Christmas season. So I don't even know. People are listening to too much Christmas music. That's what that's all I'm saying. There's like there's like eight weeks of Christmas time. What are we doing? Are y'all listening to this in like April? You guys are crazy. Um, yeah, so Ella Langley, congrats. You did it. Uh, just also going to mention real fast, we got the NHL starting next week. We got MLB playoffs starting next week before our next episode. So lots of things happening in the sports world. Of course, football is just we're thriving over here in football land. Yep. Loving it. Uh, Josh beat me in fantasy football this past week.

Josh Miller: [00:46:24] I'm doing I I'm also beating my nine and 12-year-old boys. So I'm I'm living large right now.

Conner Jones: [00:46:29] Living large. My team was plagued with injuries. It's week two. I don't even know how I have so many injuries. Uh

Josh Miller: [00:46:34] Well, I don't know what's going on here because I think I'm at the top of our fantasy league for work right now. And it's you, Micah and Ryan at the bottom. And it's like this is bizarre. This is totally upside down the way this is supposed to be working right now.

Conner Jones: [00:46:47] Yeah, we all the three of us at the bottom like live eat and breathe football and yet, I look, I can't help injuries. I can't I can't help what these guys are dealing with, especially these 49ers players across from the sub station that keeps injuring them. So, anyways, thank you guys so much for joining us. You can always send us messages or emails, let us know what your thoughts on today's episode or topics or send in questions to [email protected]. We'll definitely pick those up. Uh I've gotten several messages in the last few weeks. I'd like to mention those probably on next week's episode. Um and then, yeah, hit us up on Instagram as well at Culture Brief Podcast on Instagram. You'll find us there, follow us, send us a DM there. Josh, thanks for joining me today. It's been a good time.

Josh Miller: [00:47:22] My pleasure. Yeah, my pleasure.

Conner Jones: [00:47:23] It's a great episode. All right, we'll see you all next week.

Josh Miller: [00:47:25] See you.

Conner Jones: [00:47:26] Thank you for joining us on this week's episode of Culture Brief, a Denison Forum podcast. All articles and videos mentioned in this episode will be linked in the show notes. If you want to help us reach more believers with truth in today's chaotic culture, please share this podcast around and leave a five-star rating and review. All episodes are produced by Sound of a Rose. For more information, you can visit soundofarose.com. See you next Thursday.