Lindsey Graham dies, Charlie Kirk hearing, Trump’s address, RIP Sam Neill & World Cup Final | Ep. 77

Conner Jones: [00:00:02] Hi, I'm Conner Jones.

Clayton Harris: [00:00:03] And I'm Clayton Harris.

Conner Jones: [00:00:04] And this is Culture Brief, a Denson Forum podcast where we navigate the constant stream of top stories and news, politics, sports, pop culture, technology, so much more, and we do it all from a Christian perspective. And yeah, you heard that right. This is Clayton Harris. Clayton is a good friend of Denson Ministries. His, uh, wife is our chief marketing officer here. So Clayton, welcome to the show.

Clayton Harris: [00:00:23] Thank you very much for having me.

Conner Jones: [00:00:25] Clayton is also, uh, he is in the trenches of toddlerdom. Uh, we are both dads to almost two-year-olds. I think your daughter was born about a month after my son was born. So we are just we're here. You know, we're surviving. Clayton's also from San Diego. So, you know, we got a resident Californian around.

Clayton Harris: [00:00:36] Yes. Yep.

Clayton Harris: [00:00:42] Don't hold it to me.

Conner Jones: [00:00:42] Don't. But he's now here in North Texas. Uh, has been for I think about 10 years, right?

Clayton Harris: [00:00:47] Yes.

Conner Jones: [00:00:48] And you're no longer in full-time ministry, but you used to be. You were in, uh, high school and young adults ministry. Uh, but yeah, thanks for coming on, Clayton.

Clayton Harris: [00:00:54] Man, thank you so much for having me. Excited to be here.

Conner Jones: [00:00:56] This is going to be so much fun. All right, Clayton, what are we talking about today?

Clayton Harris: [00:00:59] We have a lot to cover today. Uh, we're talking about the death uh of Senator Lindsey Graham, the trial updates uh for Charlie Kirk's accused murderer. Uh the latest in the war with Iran and the death of actor Sam Neil and of course the World Cup that is still ongoing in our great city of Dallas, Texas.

Conner Jones: [01:15] Oh yeah. Uh, let's jump right into the brief, Connor, take it away.

Conner Jones: [01:18] The brief. Yeah, so we got Lindsey Graham, as many of y'all heard, you woke up on Sunday morning and discovered that, yeah, Senator Lindsey Graham, one of the most prominent senators out there, somebody who has honestly been kind of like a side character on this show. Uh, Mike and I have talked about Lindsey Graham a bunch of times, mostly around kind of his known war hawkishness. He was very prominent in the foreign policy world and trying to push different agendas there. Uh, he was kind of, a lot of people call him a Trump whisperer, especially when it came to talking to Donald Trump about foreign policy or about Senate relations. Donald Trump doesn't necessarily have a great relationship with many senators, but he was really good friends with Lindsey Graham. So Lindsey Graham was kind of this bridge between the White House and the Senate, uh, and could help bridge gaps there, uh, and was was a primary communicator. So all that to say, uh, it's tragic that he died. He died suddenly. Uh, I think they said it was in, it was cardiac arrest or of some sort, an aortic tear to his cardiovascular, uh, cardiovascular disease. So, and he had just returned from a trip to Ukraine. I mean, he was literally overseas doing, uh, stuff over at the NATO summit last week, as well as going to Ukraine. He met with President Vladimir Zelensky. He was announcing the implementation of additional sanctions on Russia, came home, uh, clearly, obviously a long flight. He was an older gentleman, he was age 71, and had these heart issues and it just, it took a toll on him. And he talked to Donald Trump just a couple hours before, briefing him on his trip to Ukraine. And then he talked to someone else right after Donald Trump, who said, and we don't know who this was, but, uh, he was scheduled to be on Meet the Press and this person, uh, told a reporter at Axios that, uh, Lindsey Graham basically joked, I can't die now. I still need to do the Russia sanctions, get Iran sorted out and do Israeli Saudi normalization. And then just a couple hours later, he did unfortunately pass away. So, um, man, there's a lot we can take with that. Uh, Clayton, initial thoughts on Senator Lindsey Graham's.

Clayton Harris: [03:14] Well, it's always a sad day in this country when someone who is a public servant, regardless of how you view our government public servants and if that's true or not, passes away. Definitely. Uh, it is something that deserves our attention, our mourning, our thankfulness for their time of service, uh, to our government and to our public. Uh, there will obviously be a lot of noise around what his policies, his actions, uh, his stance on Israel, his stance, uh, on Russia and Ukraine. So there's certainly a legacy that I'll be interested to see what the Republican Party does with that and who who takes the stance and picks that up. Uh, however, it is just a sad day that deserves a time of mourning for us.

Conner Jones: [03:56] Yeah. Uh, I I completely agree with that. I think what's been interesting is to see actually people on both sides of the aisle come out and start to tell stories. Uh, it's funny how people seem so villainized 100% when they're still here. Uh, and there's so many attacks, especially in the DC world. I mean, this is politics 101, right? You like attack, attack, attack on camera, in public, all that, and then be pals behind the scenes. Now, a lot of these people, Democrats included and Republicans included were like, look, I did not agree with Lindsey Graham on pretty much anything. Like we disagreed and we we made our disagreements very known. But when we were in the same room together, from what I can tell, all these tributes that poured in from people all across, uh, Washington DC were like, hey, he was a genuine man and he was funny and quippy and he loved this country. You may not have agreed how he loved it or what he was doing out of his love for this country, but no one denied that his passion for this country and service was real. Uh, Dr. Jim Denson, he noted on Monday's daily in Monday's daily article newsletter that Graham was also a strong advocate, as you mentioned Clayton, for the war with Iran and a very, maybe the strongest supporter of Israel in the Senate. Uh, even Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was on the news later that morning talking about Graham's death and he said his country had no better friend than Senator Lindsey Graham. So that's a big statement. Uh, Graham was kind of this quasi ambassador to a lot of places. Uh, we have ambassadors all across the world, but for whatever reason, Graham was like this this central figure for a lot of other world leaders. He met and knew everyone across the world. Uh, and so it is kind of a big hole in the Senate. A lot of other senators have noted this as well. They're like, hey, you can replace him, but you can't really fill those shoes. There's nobody who had the connections he had and the desires that he had, uh, between the White House and other world leaders.

Clayton Harris: [05:40] Did they formally announce who's stepping into his seat yet?

Conner Jones: [05:42] They did. It is going to be Lindsey Graham's sister. Uh, Darlene, I I want to make sure I get this name right. Darlene Nordone Graham, I believe is the name. Uh, she is a little bit younger than Graham and man, they they didn't wait a second. She's actually already been sworn in. We are recording on Wednesday morning. She was sworn in on Tuesday afternoon. Uh, Governor McMaster there in South Carolina was the one who had to choose. He basically got the option to choose who's going to replace Graham to finish off this term. The term Graham was running for, or really Lindsey Graham was in a term that ends in January. He was running for re-election. He was on the ballot for November. That's no longer going to happen. So his sister's been brought in. She's been appointed. She's been sworn in. She is now a sitting senator in the interim to finish off Lindsey Graham's tenure of this one. So she'll be in the seat until January. And then whoever wins the election in November now will take his seat. Now there is, I it didn't even take…

Clayton Harris: [06:38] That's very interesting.

Conner Jones: [06:38] It didn't take four or five hours for people to start throwing out their names or their their their publicists or whoever's, who's going to take the seat? Who's going to run for election now? Because whoever it is will likely win because South Carolina is such a red state. Whoever the Republican nomination goes to now, they're going to do this special kind of primary process, uh, a little bit late in the game, but they'll they'll they'll land on somebody to run for that seat.

Clayton Harris: [07:01] Maybe a little bit of foreshadowing, uh, of to some of our other topics. Interesting that his term is up in January, passed, now an open seat in an influential, uh, Senate spot, uh, after coming back from a trip to Ukraine, obviously steeped in a little bit of confusion. Uh, unfortunately, uh, unfortunate timing, 100%. And, you know, we can talk about that a little bit later.

Conner Jones: [07:21] Yeah, uh, look, conspiracies are are running about for sure. And it doesn't help, um, with some of the things that the FBI has said that they are investigating or they're looking into it as a precaution. But Donald Trump's even pushed back. He's like, there's nothing here. Like it, you're right though. People immediately start, it's funny the reactions, you got, you got probably the primary group who immediately starts handing out tributes and mourning and they're like, hey, we need to take some time here. This is really sad. Then you got the the group who's like, hey, I see an opportunity here. I could have that seat. And then you got the group who's like, whoa, something fishy about this. Let's start diving in there and not focus on the man, let's focus on what we think could have happened. And look, there's room for investigation, but I think you're right. Like the the immediate reactions are always very interesting to see from multiple people. Um, specifically, I Congresswoman Nancy Mace has been called out because she tweeted a a video essentially, I I want to say it was like four or five hours after we learned of Graham's death and was like, oh, they're calling me back. Uh, because she was she already she didn't win, uh, the primary for governor of South Carolina. So she I think she sees an opportunity here.

Clayton Harris: [08:26] Uh, yeah, that's, um, that's very interesting. I think that's it it it makes you understand why there's conspiracy in the general public or at least a caution for it when people defame somebody on a public stage and then celebrate their life on the next station and then make a comment like this five hours. That's…

Conner Jones: [08:42] Oh, yeah, it didn't it did not take long. I mean, I was I had just learned about it. I logged on to to Twitter before I headed to church to just see what the latest, uh, was and I'm already seeing that. And I was like, you've got to be kidding me. Um, some of us aren't even in church yet.

Conner Jones: [08:56] Uh, I want to give a couple quick tidbits about who Lindsey Graham was because I don't think a lot of people have focused on that. Uh, he was born in a small town in South Carolina. So just a South Carolina man his whole life, right? Uh, and then DC as well. Uh, he was born in 1955, a small town of Central, spent three decades as an Air Force lawyer. Uh, some of it was while he was even in Congress as a reservist, uh, and he was called up while he was a senator. Uh, in 1976, when he was 20 years old and his sister, who's now the sitting senator, uh, was 11 years old, uh, their mother died of Hodgkin's lymphoma. And then 15 months later, their father died of a heart attack, uh, which a lot of people have noted that his father died of a heart attack at 69. So, uh, there's potentially just some hereditary there with him dying at 71 of a similar similar heart condition. Uh, and he never married, he never had children, but he did legally adopt his sister after their parents died, uh, because he was an adult and she was 11 as I said, and that allowed her to receive his military benefits and him to be her legal guardian. So that's kind of a unique and I know he had a great love for her and his nieces and nephews there. Um, he won the Senate or a congressional seat from the House of Representatives in 1994. That's when he first kind of steps in the national stage, but he became prominent during the Clinton impeachment hearings in 1999. Uh, he was one of the the big voices there who was really coming after Clinton on that, kind of made him a national figure and then that gave him the the basically prestige to run for Senate in 2002, which he won and he had been in the Senate since, uh, then he was, uh, technically sworn in in 2003. Look, you can love him, you're going to hate him. Uh, I'm not going to tell you how to feel about Lindsey Graham. There's a lot of different feelings around him, but he was crucial and influential. He just he just was. He was one of those stalwarts of American politics and global affairs. I wanted to read a little bit here from, uh, Damian Paletta of the Wall Street Journal. He was kind of writing about Lindsey Graham specifically. He said, Lindsey Graham was a throwback neocon and a modern MAGA enforcer. He could befriend Democrats and then immediately drive them crazy. He was perhaps the most anti-Trump Republican before he became the president's biggest supporter. He was also a prolific communicator. The country lost its sturdiest bridge between the White House and Congress, and Congress lost perhaps its most long-standing unofficial ambassador to numerous countries, particularly Israel, which is true, right? Uh, and he was perhaps one of Trump's most influential foreign policy advisors, playing a key role in the lead up to the Iran attacks. And Graham didn't just talk to Trump, he talked to a range of foreign leaders who wanted to know where Trump stood. There is quite simply no one like Lindsey Graham left in Congress. I thought that was interesting. I also want to hit real fast on what are the broader implications here. One of the things was, well, who's going to fill the seat? Already been taken care of. They moved fast on that partly because, uh, Congress is in session this week and they've got votes. They've got appointments they got to make. Uh, Attorney General, uh, the the basically the interim Attorney General, Todd Blanche, is trying to become the permanent Attorney General. That's happening today, actually, the Senate hearings for that. They need the senators in line ready to vote to approve people, uh, to come in. Also some bills, we got the Pentagon funding bill is on the table this week as well. So there's a lot that's happening. So they were like, we got to fill this fast. So I don't even think his sister got a minute to mourn. She's now already in DC having to work and to work in as a senator, um, as the appointed person here. There's just a lot with the political atmosphere there, with the pretty much slim majority. Uh, right now the Republicans have a 52 to 47 majority in, uh, or a 53 to 47 majority in the Senate. Uh, and so they needed to make sure that stayed up to date, especially with Mitch McConnell, someone we'll talk about here in a minute. He's been unhealthy as well in the hospital. He's not able to vote. So that that that majority comes down even more. Um, yeah, so we've got all of that happening. There's a lot we can take, I think with this whole story, Clayton. As I think about Lindsey Graham, as I think about even other people, uh, who have passed away in the last year and we look back at their life, we look back at everything they've done. I was really sitting in, what is legacy? Yeah. What is Senator Graham's legacy? What would he want it to be? What what did other people have it be? And also the unexpectedness of it. Uh, I just told you, just a few hours before he died, he was like, I can't die now. He was talking, I think he was making a joke because he was talking about how he didn't feel very good and everything felt off. He's like, well, I can't die now. I've got all these things I've got to do. Well, there's a lesson in that and even James speaks to that in, uh, James 4:13 through 15, which says, come now, you who say, today or tomorrow, who we will go into such and such a town and spend a year there and trade and make a profit. Yet you who do not know what tomorrow will bring. What is your life? For you are a mist that appears for a little time and then vanishes. Instead, you ought to say, if the Lord wills, we will live and do this or that. Um, yeah, so, you know, I think we can all take that lesson. We are not promised anything past the minute we're living in now. Like we're not promised the rest of today, we're not promised tomorrow, which should help you to think, well, how am I living my life out today? And if I was to die today, what is my legacy? I think a a kind of another prominent person out there right now is former Senator Ben Sasse. I'm not sure Clayton if you've seen anything from him. Ben Sasse is a, one, he's a Christian and two, he was a former senator who actually stepped away in his 50s, unlike most senators. Uh, and then he's been on this big public tour because he announced in December that he has pancreatic cancer and he was given 90 days to live. But that was seven months ago and he is, uh, holding fast. He's doing some experimental treatment that's been really, uh, helping kill off the cancer as much as it can. It's not supposed to be a cure. He's still expected to die. But he's taking the extra time that he's gotten, the extra energy he's gotten. He's thanking the Lord for it. He's spending time with his family and he's going out and talking on loads of podcasts. He's doing public speaking and he's like, look, it's reoriented my entire life. Like obviously I've got I've got a a time clock here that I I have to abide by. Like I don't know how much longer I have. So I'm reorienting everything I'm doing in my life and I'm taking this time to try to share the gospel of Christ on these interviews, on these podcasts. Um, anybody who will listen, they need to hear where my trust, where my peace comes from because if you don't have Christ, it's hard to have peace. Uh, I don't know how you have full peace, you know? Yes. Um, and 1 Corinthians 12:27, it says, now you are the body of Christ and individually you are members of it. So, um, you know, as we think about what part we play daily, what is our legacy? Are we leaving a legacy of I played a part in God's body, in Christ's body and went out and shared the truth of Christ? Um, or is my legacy going to be something different? When people look at my life, if I died today, what would they say? You know, what would those tributes be? Um, it's something just as a great reflection. I think, you know, it's sad when we lose people unexpectedly or when you lose somebody in their 50s who's dying of cancer. That's tragic as well. Um, and you know, hopefully Ben Sasse gets way way more time, uh, than anybody's expecting and that the Lord blesses him in that way. We're praying for a miracle there, but it's just if Graham had known this was his last day, would he have done anything different? I don't know. But if you knew it was your last day, what would you do different?

Clayton Harris: [15:58] That is a really tough question. I I don't know if it would be anything different. I think it would be a prioritization of the things in in my life. And I'm sure you can speak to this too. But the prioritization of, uh, my family, number one, and the gift that that God has given us to steward, uh, the parenting of a small child and prioritizing my family and time with them over just about anything else. And and I I think one of the things we do at night with Maven is is very intentionally praying over her and very intentionally caring for her. Uh, and that is so important to our family that that's the legacy we want to leave to her. Uh, is that there is a legacy of faith in our family that will continue for generations and for generations. And I'm I'm curious to how you approach that with your with your family if this was your last day, if this was your give some commentary there.

Conner Jones: [16:49] Oh, yeah. No, I just I'm right there with you, man. I it it's already, my perspective has shifted already. Even when you have children and like everything changes, right? But as I've started to think about like, man, I I hope people, um, not just people, but like what am I doing to serve the Lord? What am I doing to serve the kingdom and trying to put that more up front? Uh, yeah, definitely priority on family and faith, everything. Yeah, how do I want to serve in the church, in my community, all of that stuff. So there's a lot I think we can all take with that. But yeah, thanks Clayton.

Conner Jones: [17:15] All right, well, that'll do it for the Lindsey Graham story here and we'll continue to keep his family in our prayers and, uh, hopefully our nation can, uh, find the right replacement for him long term and we can move forward as a nation.

Clayton Harris: [17:27] Transitioning very quickly, uh, to another top story. We're going to bring you up to speed on Charlie Kirk's murder case and the proceedings that have happened over July 6th to July 10th. Uh, this is going to be very factual based. I'm going to go maybe a little fast here to potentially leave some room for commentary. Uh, but we want to focus on the facts only of what has proceeded and not any sort of assumption that might be going on in the background. And one thing to highlight certainly with this particular, uh, news story is that it's already been surrounded by a bunch of noise outside of this what actually happened, outside of truth, right? Uh, there are opinions, affiliations, political and personal. There are countless theories if you spend too much time on X or Twitter, uh, you have undoubtedly seen them. If you follow any of the conservative talking heads, you've seen it and been inundated by it. Uh, so our goal here in this moment is to take a a particular amount of time to discuss what exactly has happened and so that you have the fullness of truth in this space, uh, for you to formulate and pray over a decision about what you think is actually happening. Uh, this case is entering has finished the preliminary hearing phase. Again, that happened July 6th to 10th. Uh, the designation to answer a single legal question, uh, has the prosecution, the state of Utah, shown probable cause that Tyler Robinson has committed these crimes. Uh, the presiding judge is Judge Tony Graf. He has seen all the evidence and is going to decide on whether or not this case will go to trial. Uh, the state of Utah is currently seeking the death penalty against Tyler Robinson. Uh, Tyler Robinson is 23 years old, uh, which me being 31 and you being around 30 as well, this is not a far cry to our community or our individuals, uh, who are similar or peers. Uh, he is accused of killing Charlie Kirk at the Utah Valley University campus on September 10th, 2025. He has been charged with the following counts, aggravated murder, uh, a capital offense, a felony discharge of a firearm, obstruction of justice, witness tampering, uh, and additional enhancement charges. The hearing presented the largest public release of evidence in this case since the very public killing. Among the most significant pieces of evidence provided by the prosecution is the DNA evidence. Uh, they had forensic experts testify that the DNA recovered from items associated with the suspected murder was overwhelmingly likely to belong to Robinson. Uh, the defense is obviously challenging that claim, uh, saying the reliability and interpretations of the forensics is inconclusive. Now, Judge Graf was shown extensive surveillance footage. That's another part of the evidence submitted by the prosecution, uh, of Robinson on the Utah Valley campus, uh, that showed him arriving, moving around campus before the shooting, uh, traveling to the rooftop prosecutors say was used as the sniper position, uh, and then leaving afterward. That graphic footage, uh, of the actual shooting was shown in court, uh, but has not been publicly released, which is an interesting cadence because we have all seen that footage from the very public nature, uh, of the murder.

Conner Jones: [20:25] Well, I I if correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think I've seen that there's other angles or other footage that has been shown in this court but has not been shown to the general public. And that the Kirk family actually wanted it to be shown for full transparency.

Clayton Harris: [20:37] Yes, and, uh, Erica Kirk and her family, uh, have sued or not, I'm sorry, not sued, they've raised that in in court, uh, to show it to the public for a for the world to see. Yeah. Uh, there's a a debate over this that we'll talk about here in a little bit on, uh, how public do you make this to ensure a fair trial, uh, or the possibility of appeal, etc. So there's a lot to discuss there in a second. Uh, the other piece of evidence that came through Robinson's former roommate, Lance Twigs, uh, according to testimony, Robinson allegedly admitted involvement after the shooting. Uh, the prosecutors have introduced those text messages and Discord communications. They argue they argue corroborate that confession, uh, to the roommate. He also Twigs also described, uh, Tyler Robinson as expressing regret, uh, after the killing. The defense questioned Twigs's credibility, uh, and attacked how investigators handled portions of those interviews. So, as always, the defense is going to raise as much doubt as they can around the evidence presented. The prosecution's job is to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this individual committed these acts. Uh, a jury has obviously not been selected. This portion of time has only been preliminary to decide whether or not this is going to go to trial. Uh, we should hear from Judge Graf September 1st on whether or not this will continue. So we've got about a month and a half before we hear, uh, any additional news.

Conner Jones: [21:58] It would be shocking if it did not continue. I mean, this this from everything you've just mentioned and from everything I've read over the last week, it seems like this is right on course to go to a full-on trial with a jury and everything.

Clayton Harris: [22:10] Yes, and the defense has not offered a, uh, a separate, uh, suspect in any of these cases. They've simply said, well, that's inconclusive, well, that's not true, well, that's not full. So they're trying to cast doubt on what's gathered, not trying to suggest pure innocence. And I think that is a, maybe a sign we don't want to look too far into, but knowing how these proceedings happen, that is clear and telling that there's not another option on the table at this point. They have they have they have said this is the guy we believe has done it and it is our case to prove that he has done this unfortunate deed. Uh, like we kind of discussed earlier, the public nature, uh, this is a ton of concern and roadblock to legal proceedings of this caliber. Um, I think we kind of experienced a little bit of it with a very localized, uh, trial that happened right up the road in Collin County with the Carmelo Anthony trial and how public that became or how how little the public had access to the court proceedings. Uh, this is going to be decided by the judge and how much they're doing here. Uh, obviously, you have the public nature of Charlie Kirk as an individual and his turning point USA, uh, program and the individuals that he has associated with politically, uh, and then a very public nature of his murder and now the case. This there's a lot happening here. Like quite a bit. I and I I'm I don't really know if I have an opinion or a recommendation on how they should proceed. As a non-legal expert, I probably shouldn't give one. But I would say that, you know, there's going to be so much hearsay around this that we need to be very cautious about what is truth, finding reputable sources that are going to be able to provide this information to us as, uh, as podcast presenters and to the country as consumers of media. Uh, go ahead, looks like you had something to add there.

Conner Jones: [23:55] Oh, no, I I'm just right there with you. Like I we're not legal experts, but man, it it's that's part of why having any transparency we can have from, uh, the government, from the prosecutors, from even the defense, uh, you know, that helps everybody discern. Well, and the the the Kirk family is saying, we want this all open publicly. Right. We want this as public as we can get it so the world can see the strength of this prosecution's case. Well, and I think they feel that they feel the weight of so many people throwing theories their way and even I mean, a lot of the theories are blaming Erica herself or turning point. They want probably to say, look, here is everything and you are you should see everything so that you guys can understand here's what really happened and it didn't involve us. That's that's probably their thinking behind it.

Clayton Harris: [24:40] And you can't blame them for taking that stance after all that that family has endured over the last year, no matter how you feel about it, no matter what your personal opinion is of the information you've viewed or been fed on social media, you cannot deny that there has been almost, uh, a a tsunami of information around this family. Uh, the defense is going to argue that that level of publication could prejudice future jurors, could jeopardize the constitutional right to a fair trial for Tyler Robinson, which are in my opinion, a fair point. I think everybody in this country deserves a fair trial and a fair opportunity, uh, to have justice served from both sides. So I think this is it's fair, you know, some context, earlier this year, uh, a judge found one prosecutor in civil contempt after public comments around the evidence in this case. The defense argued those comments tainted the jury pool and sought dismissal of the death penalty. That did not go through. Uh, Judge Graf declined the remove the removal of the death penalty, but warned the prosecution that future public comments are going to be looked at much closer. Yeah. So there's you can tell that the judge is trying to find a proper balance here and is not swaying completely one way or the other. He's definitely taking in both accounts.

Conner Jones: [25:51] Yeah. Yeah, I don't know what's going to happen here. Uh, and I I I'm glad you reminded me of the death penalty here because there's a lot there's a lot of weight that comes with the death penalty. You could even see them coming to an agreement of fully admitting guilt and if that takes the death penalty off, maybe that's what happens here. That's what happens a lot of the times in court court cases like this, but we don't know what's going to happen and I'm not we're not going to try to predict or prophesy the full thing here, but, uh, man, just such an interesting case. Obviously just has the attention of the entire nation. Um, for the better part of a year.

Conner Jones: [26:21] For the better part of a year. And then once the trial really kicks off, it's really going to grasp a lot of people. And yeah, a lot of that's going to be because people just want to see justice served and there's a lot of people are going to be coming in to see what's the full transparency here. Maybe there is some, uh, theorizing that's happening that drives a lot of attention to this as well.

Clayton Harris: [26:37] Yeah, there's probably a little bit too much of that in in my personal opinion. I I feel like there's been far much far too much theorizing about what happened that we will never understand the full picture of. And I think that is the plight of a Christian who can fall back a little bit more on the trustworthiness that God sees all things. Uh, and as we progress to that, I'll I'll give some next steps, uh, here in in the trial. September 1st, we're not expecting, uh, to hear an answer before then. September 1st, we should have a deciding on whether probable cause was found and the trial will proceed. That's when Robinson will formally enter please, uh, if he has not already. The extensive pre-trial litigation will continue, jury selection prep will begin, and then the death penalty phase remains available to the prosecutors as well. Uh, I think, you know, I've already said the word tsunami already, but we can't ignore that on the horizon, you know, with a September 1st time, like a a date that we know is coming, there is going to be, uh, commentary, conspiracies, opinions, allegiances, and allegations, uh, that could cause more irreparable damage to a bleak political and individual opinion climate in this country. Yeah. Uh, how the question that I want to challenge you with, I want to challenge the viewers with is how do we as citizens of the kingdom of God first and citizens of this nation second, progress through this season that is filled with information that we cannot trust or that we deem, uh, unworthy with so much uncertainty. I think that's that's the question we should all have on our hearts and pray over is that the Lord gives us guidance over this, that we seek clarity, uh, the light shining in the darkness that provides answers to us. But I think we also need to be, uh, understanding and accepting that there are things way beyond our concept and understanding that we should not have access to. And I know we feel privileged or at least entitled, uh, to access based off of how much we use our phones and how much information we get from that and we deem that we have, uh, a supposed, uh, entitlement to information all over the world where that was not how God intended us to live at all.

Conner Jones: [28:40] No, it's insane how much it's insane the information we have in our pockets. Like it's just it's never been anything like that. And then it's updating constantly. The news cycle updates constantly and this and this and this and this. And yeah, it feels overwhelming at times. It's a good point.

Clayton Harris: [28:52] I I think the the biggest point here is like, uh, I I'll defer to my favorite my favorite section of verses in John 9 where Christ heals a blind man, uh, and the Pharisees are sitting there asking him, you know, who sinned more, the the his parents or this man to be blind. Uh, and God said it's not really about the sin, it's about so that the glory of God can be shown through this man and through this action. Uh, paraphrasing there, I I'd highly recommend reading John 9. It is my favorite passage in in the Bible, 100%. But I think that there's intentionality to take from that where blindness is for the glory of God to be shown through us. And if we are we we don't need to be privy to all these things. The only thing we need to be privy to is our faith in Christ and our families. And that like that's the ministry that God has given both of us at this point in time is that we are centered on our families and that is our current form of ministry outside of this or our first form of ministry is our families. Uh, and that's all that matters.

Conner Jones: [29:49] Yeah, I I whatever God is, you know, whatever he makes clear to us is what he's intending for us to know. Um, you know, he he he puts things in each of our individual lives that is like he's laying out the path for us. He's he's making known what he intends for us to know. It's kind of interesting. I mean, when you just look at scripture, we don't know the answers to everything. I I would like to know if there's aliens in the universe. For whatever reason, God didn't seem to clarify that. And that's intentional by him. Like he didn't need to. He didn't think we needed to know why we he doesn't think we need to know every single detail of how every single thing was created. Uh, was evolution a thing? I don't know because that's not that's not laid out exactly in scripture. He tells us what he wants us to know, um, which is ultimately for the better.

Clayton Harris: [30:32] Well, he told us at the very beginning of time, he told Adam and Eve, don't eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. This is don't eat from that. You don't need full knowledge. You need to trust in us. And now here we are, uh, continuing to eat from the tree. Uh, hysterical that our phones are Apple iPhones and we Yeah. You know what? I've never even thought about that. Conspiracy. Uh, more conspiracy theories for you. Uh, to add here, you know, this this is the Bible is obviously the total truth of God, uh, and his word, and we always should defer to that in times of uncertainty. The the Psalms, if you're struggling at all with any sort of level of, uh, discernment or needing discernment from the Lord, the Psalms are full of laments from David about placing totality of trust in the Lord. Uh, Proverbs 3:5-6, trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways, submit to him and he'll make your path straight. Uh, Jeremiah 17:7-8, blessed is the man who trusts the Lord who, uh, whose trust is in the Lord. He is like a tree planted by water that sends out its roots by the stream. It does not fear when heat comes, for its leaves remain green and is not anxious in the year of drought, for it does not cease to bear fruit. And that is I don't think there's anything more telling for our country than this verse right here that there is a time of drought, there is a time of uncertainty that Christ has spoken about in Matthew. Uh, conspiracy is a version of distrust. And if we let our minds set on conspiracy of things we will never have full knowledge of or full understanding of, it erodes our level of trust in what we do know. And I want to be very cautious of that as we approach, uh, not only the political climate, you know, the the death of a senator, uh, the death of a prominent political figure, elections, uh, we'll we'll talk a little bit later about the president's announcement tonight of what he's going to discuss as we give kind of the final wrap on the on the podcast. But we need to be discerning. Uh, and I'll point you again to Matthew 24:4-8. And Jesus answered, watch out that no one deceives you, for many will come in my name claiming I am the Messiah and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All of these are the beginning of the birth pains. I think what what we can take from that is God has already proclaimed that there will be distrust, there will be deception, and our faith needs to be in him for true, full truth and understanding of what he needs us to understand.

Conner Jones: [33:02] Yeah, I'm right there with you. Well, thanks Clayton. It's not an easy topic. Neither of these were, uh, light topics today. I mean, the death of a senator and then obviously we're still reflecting on the death of Charlie Kirk, uh, almost a year ago. This trial is going to hit at just about the one-year mark of that, uh, death and then to just bring it all back up into the culture again. I'm sure we'll be talking about that more extensively as we get closer and what as the trial gets going. But thanks for kind of the the preview and setting it all up and yeah, just good truth there too of what what what do we really need to know? We need to know what the Lord intended us for to know. Um, and it's easy to stray off that.

Conner Jones: [33:39] Let me mention real fast our mailbag. As usual, we always say, if you have questions for us on Culture Brief or you have thoughts on what we discussed today, please send us those, uh, send those our way as well as any fun stories you might want to share. We can bring those up here on the podcast or any topics that you'd like to hear about on future episodes. Yeah, you can shoot those to us over at [email protected] or find us on Instagram, message us on Instagram @culturebriefpodcast. We love to see you guys there in the comments or in our messages, uh, and we will, uh, definitely bring those up on the show. So thanks for that. Clayton, let's do a quick little, uh, check in action here. We got a lot going on. Uh, you mentioned it already. Trump is doing an announcement, uh, tonight, if you're listening on Thursday. It will be at 9:00 p.m. Eastern. He's addressing the nation. We don't know everything he's going to say, but essentially, we're looking to see him talk about, uh, one, election fraud from 2020 is apparently he's got some big announcement around that is what has been trickled out to the media now. So to everything you just said about conspiracy, uh, we'll see. I just don't know what this is going to entail to be completely honest. I I I sometimes I think a lot of the culture has moved on from the 2020 election, but a lot of it has not. And so, uh, we'll see what he says there. But I'm really going to be watching this more so for what he's going to say about Iran. Uh, if you've been watching the news this week, you know, we've been talking for months about Iran and it's off again, on again, ceasefire here, stoppage here, a memorandum of understanding here. But I mean, it's really picked up for the most part, um, probably more than it has in recent months. Uh, we're we're like doing full on offensives over there, uh, again as the US Navy and military starts doing more and more strikes on Iran. Seems like we're kind of on the cusp of another big just outbreak of conflict.

Clayton Harris: [35:20] Yeah, I I I honestly have no I I don't know what to think about this outside of putting my trust and discernment in in the Lord. I have some friends that are military that we continue to pray over, um, that are not directly involved, but obviously there's still some relationships there. So we continue to pray over our our men and women of our military to ensure that they're safety. Um, we pray for the right outcome. I think that's I think that's our position that, you know, all every individual in this world is in some form or fashion a child of God. And so we're we mourn war and we mourn conflict, but we ask for a speedy a speedy end.

Conner Jones: [35:53] Yeah, we're as we've said here, we're just praying for peace. Peace for, uh, a peace agreement in this specific conflict, but peace for the region. Uh, but we're praying for peace in Ukraine and Russia as well and all of the other conflicts happening in the world. We're just praying that God would help bring, uh, a bridge to peace and a a resolution to these conflicts. All that to say, just continue to pray for the region, pray for this, pray for the leadership of our nation as they consider more, um, operations essentially. I they're they've there have been situation room meetings this week as they've planned out the next stage of warfare here, it sounds like.

Clayton Harris: [36:26] It's uh, it feels a little too Miss Congeniality to be like, I pray for world peace, but I would say that this is such an important prayer topic for our lives, understanding that we are not the only nation that is Christian in this world. We are not the only Christians in this world that there are brothers and sisters around the globe that need our prayer. Uh, and we can only provide that's the only great thing we can provide them.

Conner Jones: [36:47] Yeah, we're yeah, we we are praying for people we will never meet. Um, and they need our prayers. So join us in praying for, uh, all around the world conflict and an end to it. Something else, legendary New Zealand actor, Sam Neil, unfortunately also passed away this week. He died on Monday in Sydney, Australia. If you don't know that name, I wouldn't be surprised. He wasn't like one of those household names, but he was a household face. Everybody knew him. Sam Neil, the star of the Jurassic Park movies. Um, and he was in a whole bunch of other stuff. I told you earlier, Clayton, he had 150 movie or TV credits on IMDB, which is just an illustrious career of an actor. Uh, but yeah, obviously Jurassic Park just dude, one of my childhood heroes, uh, his character in Jurassic Park movies is one of my favorite movies. I'm sad about this. He was also in the Peaky Blinders more recently. Uh, you guys could probably all name a bunch of movies and TV shows he was in.

Clayton Harris: [37:37] The Hunt for Red October.

Conner Jones: [37:38] Hunt for Red October.

Clayton Harris: [37:39] One of the my favorite films of all time. Yes. Really, really fantastic.

Conner Jones: [37:43] Uh, the piano, I think is also one of the ones he's probably more known for, uh, kind of a drama there. But yeah, sad to hear Sam Neil has passed away. We continue to lose legendary actors, man. Uh, it's part of life as it goes on and we lose these older actors, but, um, just really sad and unexpected. And he had just overcome cancer, I believe. So, uh, you know, again, to everything we've talked about today, you never know what tomorrow will bring. So, and I don't know where his faith stood, but I would hope that he came to know Jesus Christ at some point in his life, but we don't know for sure. But God knew his heart.

Conner Jones: [38:13] All right, tune in. We already mentioned the presidential address. If you are listening on Thursday, I highly recommend tuning in tonight at 9:00 p.m. Eastern, uh, 8:00 p.m. Central to hear what he has to say. We really don't know what it's going to be. Um, maybe by the time you listen to this, you have a better idea of what it could entail, but we'll be tuning in for sure. Then the British Open, aka just the open for you golf fanatics out there like us. I know Clayton and I love golf. I hey, look, I wore my golf polo. I got my golf hat on, a little, uh, Travis Matthews on the head here. Man, I love open golf. This is just like where they play these courses over in in the UK that don't look like anything we have here in the United States. They're, um, right along the shore and they're different types of grass. It's really cool. So world's best golfers going to go over there and compete.

Clayton Harris: [38:56] Yeah, it's going to be a fun one. I, uh, I always enjoy this level of golf. Uh, the major golf is always the best golf, honestly, to watch. Uh, no offense to the rest of the PGA tour events, but major golf is major for a reason. Uh, I always have always had an affinity for the British Open just due to the time zone difference and being able to either stay up a little later or wake up early to watch some golf. Uh, it's always been one of those fun events for us, very similar to the World Cup, transitioning to the World Cup. Spain, big win over France yesterday, two to nothing. Uh, I only got a chance to watch part of the game, but it looked like a pretty dominant performance from Spain defensively, offensively, they took it to him.

Conner Jones: [39:36] Truly. Uh, yeah, I watched this game kind of in the background and France looked like they never had anything going their way. Um, which is incredible to say considering…

Clayton Harris: [39:42] They were the favorites.

Conner Jones: [39:44] They were the favorites, but you also have arguably the best three strikers, three offensive minds in football on the field at the same time and you go scoreless. You put up zero against…

Conner Jones: [39:56] Kind of honestly, I think a lot of people were shocked that game was here in Dallas and I I know a lot of people around were like, wow, it didn't even look close. Um, that said, so we now know Spain will be in the World Cup final. We're going to wait to see, you will know by the time you're listening to this, if it will be Argentina or England. That game is happening right after we stop recording, uh, this they're actually about to kick off. So super exciting. It should be a fun game. Of course, Messi doing his thing over there. We'll see if he's in the finals. Uh, England though, this is I was reading about this last night. If England makes it to the World Cup final, this ties into the British Open because they would both be on Sunday. Uh, and the British Open's like, we might have to like move our schedule up because we don't want a mass exodus of all of our fans. Oh, nobody would go. Yeah, they're like, everybody's the British Open's great, but it happens every year. England in a World Cup final is a once in a generation thing and the whole country will be tuned in.

Clayton Harris: [40:45] Every spectator will be at a pub, uh, enjoying that.

Conner Jones: [40:48] Uh, one little known fact about this, uh, matchup here is it is a 40-year rivalry.

Clayton Harris: [40:52] Yes. They have never faced each other in a World Cup final. They hardly ever face each other outside of the World Cup, really never. Uh, this all revolves around the Falkland War. Yeah. Uh, from 40 years ago.

Conner Jones: [41:04] Here we go, history lesson for everybody.

Clayton Harris: [41:04] The Falklands. Yeah, the Falklands. That's all I have to say about it. Uh, I I've I've recently been reading into it, uh, this morning and I I don't feel comfortable talking about it fully on this podcast.

Conner Jones: [41:14] I once read a book on it. Uh, the Falklands War, I believe 1980. This was Margaret Thatcher's big thing when she stepped in. They Yeah, England and Argentina were fighting over some islands off the south coast of Argentina. England claimed them, Argentina claimed them. They had some naval battles there for a few months. It was about a six or seven month war. It was legit. And there is still some very tense feelings between the two countries. And so to see them, um, you know, playing on this field today, by the time you listen to this, one of these two countries will be moving on either way. Yeah, there's a lot of beef there, uh, and it's it's kind of an interesting geopolitical thing.

Clayton Harris: [41:47] Yes, their last matchup was Maradona's hand of God. Yeah. With the most one of the most iconic plays in soccer and football history. So it it's, uh, I'm recording it. So let's you're going to record it. I'm going to record it and we're going to get home after the work day. Yeah, we're going to I think there's going to be, um, hopefully VAR Argentina is not, uh, on on too much of a of a display here. Uh, I'm pulling for England as unamerican as that is. I think that's been a a really fun watch to see Jude Bellingham really perform well. Uh, other than that, we're stoked and maybe my maybe to wrap up, can I wrap up with my hot take?

Conner Jones: [42:23] I I was I was actually going to ask you for this because you brought this up to me before we recorded and I was like, this is perfect timing. Clayton's got a great soccer hot take. I want to hear it.

Clayton Harris: [42:31] Um, the United States, and this is purely my opinion and a a level of soccer knowledge that only occurs probably once every three years. So let's take this for maybe a grain of salt. We as a country, the United States will never compete at a at a high football level because the culture of soccer and football are just it's the antithesis of American culture where the the flopping, drawing, dramatics, etc, uh, of regular everyday football, Sunday League football all the way up to Premier League football, uh, is the complete antithesis of the American culture, which is we work hard, we get up, we pull ourselves up by the bootstraps, we get knocked down, we get back up again. You know, there's not a whole lot of complaining. Now that culture has changed a little bit on the American side, but I would say like it's just not ingrained in us as it is ingrained in other places. And if that's insulting to anybody outside of this country, we're the best.

Conner Jones: [43:27] I I would say a couple things there. One is you're right, it's a very theatrical sport. As a lot of Americans have watched it, they're like, I keep seeing these reels of these women who are like, I gave birth to babies and got up and walked the next day. And you guys get kicked in the toe and you like fall over and cry. You're a professional athlete. Yeah, it it's it's truly a very theatrical sport. Uh, I would also say but basketball has become the same thing with the NBA. They're all just faking it and being little babies out there. Um, and then what's weird is like when somebody actually is genuinely hurt, you just don't even believe it. Like it's like, nah, they can't possibly be hurt.

Clayton Harris: [43:56] 100%. To your point on the NBA, the decline in the NBA viewership has gone down significantly over the last 5 to 10 years and I firmly believe it is because of the theatrics.

Conner Jones: [44:07] Yeah, the theatrics, the weak softness of their they're just that they they are not the strong physical embodiment of 1990s basketball. And soccer is not that either. And so it's kind of interesting. I would think there's more to the US soccer not ever being able to become the primary sport or at least not recruiting in guys who are going to be superstars one day. A lot of that, people have been calling out, even professional soccer players have been calling out the last couple weeks. They're like, look, we're never going to get the top talent here because of the select soccer system. Uh, same thing with like volleyball and certain baseball leagues. Anything where these kids start to get good in like middle school and high school and they should be playing at the highest levels, but parents are having to fork out thousands of dollars and spend every weekend traveling metroplexes or states and staying in hotels. Like it's becoming an unattainable thing for a lot of people. And so yeah, the kids are going to say, well, I can't do that, but I can play basketball at my high school or I can play football on, you know, somewhere more locally and not have to do all of that. I think that's a big, big reason. But you're right, there's something about the attitude of the sport too that maybe just doesn't mesh with an American.

Clayton Harris: [45:05] It just doesn't align. There's a reason we like football where guys just slam into each other all day long. Correct. And UFC and hockey, you know, we're a hockey country now. So it it's…

Conner Jones: [45:13] That's true.

Clayton Harris: [45:14] We are a hockey country now. I work for a Canadian company, so I had to throw that jab in there. Uh, I I think that there's just it more aligns with how we like to consume things, but also how we go about our everyday life.

Conner Jones: [45:25] It's true. Yeah, and America just likes to be different. We don't want to have the most popular sport in the world be our most popular sport. We don't want to have Celsius, we want to have Fahrenheit. You know, we don't want to have, uh, inches, we want to have or or centimeters, we want to have inches. Like it's just that's the way the American spirit is. You know, that's how it is. So if you're listening to this from another country, um, we appreciate you, but we will probably not ever have soccer be our primary sport. Uh, we'll take over your other sports like hockey. Sorry, Canada. Uh, but anyways, guys, this has been such a fun episode. Clayton, thank you for coming on and joining me and helping dive into all these stories, especially the, uh, you know, the everything with Charlie Kirk and that whole case that was that was great stuff. So appreciate you coming on and taking the time today. And thank you all for joining us this week. And I hope you all have a great week.

Clayton Harris: [45:53] Thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks, man. I appreciate it. God bless you guys.

Conner Jones: [46:09] Thank you for joining us on this week's episode of Culture Brief, a Denson Forum podcast. All articles and videos mentioned in this episode will be linked in the show notes. If you want to help us reach more believers with truth in today's chaotic culture, please share this podcast around and leave a five-star rating and review. All episodes are produced by Sound of a Rose. For more information, you can visit soundofarose.com. See you next Thursday.