Is Gen Z okay? A student minister on purpose, sports betting, self-image & deadpanning | Ep. 88

Conner Jones: [00:00:02] Hi, I'm Connor Jones.

Cole Travis: [00:00:03] And I'm Cole Travis.

Conner Jones: [00:00:04] And this is Culture Brief, a Denison Forum podcast where we navigate the constant stream of top stories and news, politics, sports, pop culture, technology, and so much more, and we do it all from a Christian perspective. And yeah, you heard that right. This is Mr. Cole Travis. Cole, welcome to the show.

Cole Travis: [00:00:17] Yeah, thanks. Happy to be here.

Conner Jones: [00:00:19] Uh, yeah, Cole is the student minister at Prestonwood Baptist Church's North campus in Prosper, Texas. Uh, he's also my friend. We've known each other, I, I don't know how many years.

Cole Travis: [00:00:28] Man, eight years? Almost nine. Eight or nine years, probably going back all the way to our DBU days. Cole's also a fellow Dallas Baptist University grad. You also have a master's in uh, tell me, Master's in Theological Studies from Southwestern Seminary, so you're a smart guy. Uh, and you've been doing student ministry for a decade.

Conner Jones: [00:00:32] We're getting old.

Cole Travis: [00:00:33] We're getting old.

Conner Jones: [00:00:35] Yes. Uh, and today, because of your experience in that, we're going to really have a conversation around Gen Z and Gen Alpha, which I cannot believe we're already talking about Gen Alpha. Feels like everything's been so Gen Z focused for a while. Now we're talking about the next generation after that who are starting to get phones and they're on social media and they're in middle school. Um, so glad you're here to talk about that stuff. We're going to talk about the cultural aspects, some of the cultural things that they are experiencing in their daily lives and are struggling with and how we, older people, I guess are we old in this? I guess we're old. Okay, you're using the Gen Z language already. Perfect. Uh, how we can minister, whether you're our age, uh, young 20, like upper 20s, young 30s, or if you're parents to teenagers, this is a great conversation for you. If you're grandparents to teenagers, or you have teenagers in your church, this will be a great conversation. Uh, we got some great talking points that we're going to hit on. So, Cole, most importantly, you are husband to Bailey and father to Macy.

Cole Travis: [00:01:16] I guess we're old.

Conner Jones: [00:01:17] Yeah, we're old.

Cole Travis: [00:01:40] Yes. I'm excited to be here.

Conner Jones: [00:01:42] Yeah, glad you're here. Uh, anything else you want to mention before we get rolling in?

Cole Travis: [00:01:45] No, that's it. I love this topic. Thank you for tuning in. It's going to be a really great conversation. So let's jump in to the brief.

Conner Jones: [00:01:50] The brief. [00:01:54] You know, Cole, there's a lot of people of Gen Z and of Gen Alpha who are starting to think about purpose. They're starting to think about future. They're starting to think about what am I supposed to do? And Gen Z specifically, a lot of them are already in their workplace. They're either in college, they maybe graduated, they're in their mid to late 20s. And so a lot of them are thinking through this, well, what am I going to do with my life? Um, and maybe some of them are still in high school thinking that too, maybe not to the extent that others are. But when they start to question, what is my purpose? What is my direction in life? How do I find my purpose and my calling and my job? How do you, how do you answer that to your students?

Cole Travis: [00:02:28] Yeah, that's the big question. Um, and to kind of define our terms a little bit, Gen Z, typically people think is around 15 or 16 years old to around 30. Um, so I feel like we are at the older end of Gen Z. I've called myself an elder Gen Z. Elder Gen Z or a baby millennial. Literally right on the board. Depends on the room. Yes. So we're at the cusp of millennial Gen Z. So about 16 to 30 is Gen Z and then 15, 16 younger is Gen Alpha. And so it's funny that finding my purpose is that question that I think historically in past generations, they've started to ask younger. So, you know, I mean 12, 13, 14, 15. But then now there's a delayed adolescence that's happening that's, you know, 18 to mid 20s. So they're out of college now in their career, uh, middle Gen Z, what do I do with my life? And so finding that purpose and I love this conversation and I think a lot of people are listening to this care about younger generations and helping them find their place in the world. Um, I think that's a biblical worldview precedent that we care for the younger generations and help them find their place. But when I'm talking to a younger Gen Z asking these big questions, I I struggled with that. One of the biggest anxieties in my life was, who do I want to be when I grow up? Where do I want to go? What do I want to do? And so, you know, ultimately, I I have one framework that I kind of share with them to help them understand their place in the world. And then I ask three big questions on how to find that specific job.

Conner Jones: [00:04:37] Okay.

Cole Travis: [00:04:38] So, ultimately, I think the framework starts with one, that God provides peace in the unknown. Um, that first needs to start there. And the specifically the scripture tells us that that peace surpasses all understanding. Um, so when you don't understand, that's the peace that Jesus supplies right there. Yeah, that's true. Um, and then actually scripture says to lean not on your own understanding, but instead, in all your ways acknowledge him and he'll make your path straight. So, I like to work backwards. So, um, how do you want your path to be straight? Start with acknowledging God. And the first question is, what's the next most wise thing to do? What's the next most God-honoring thing to do? Um, lean not on your own understanding and he'll make your path straight. So there's a sequence there. So he provides peace in the unknown. And then he also provides a road map. So this is the framework I like to supply. So there's, there's three categories of your life that are important to be distinct that we can't combine. So we have an identity, uh, we have a calling, um, and we have an assignment.

Conner Jones: [00:06:13] Okay.

Cole Travis: [00:06:13] And so your assignment is not your identity. So who you, what you do is not who you are. I think we first need to share with Gen Z, your identity is only in Christ. The things that are eternal matters the most. So who are you in Jesus? Um, but your identity is a Christian and that is sealed and secure. The scripture says that the Holy Spirit is the seal of our salvation, our inheritance is in heaven. So your identity in Christ is what never changes, no matter what. Uh, you're holy, you're set apart, you're chosen. All of that is true. You're a child of the king. Your identity never changes. Uh, your calling is the general direction of your life. So, say you're driving down the tollway, there's multiple lanes. Uh, the identity is that you're in the car on the road. That's that's who you are. That doesn't change. Your calling is the general direction of the highway. And I think as Christians, we need to say our primary calling is to love God, make disciples and love our neighbor. That doesn't change. So that's the general direction that we're all going. That's the primary calling of our life. The secondary calling is your vocation, which is the way in which you fulfill that main calling. Um, and so we as Christians all have the same direction, but then your assignment is the lane that you're in on the highway. And that's how you get there. So your assignment will change, um, but your identity never does. And I just would like to say that if you get your identity right, if you understand your general calling to love God, honor him, make disciples, that's 99% of the question. Yep. Um, and then your assignment will change with what's the next most obedient thing to do. That's the general framework.

Conner Jones: [00:08:50] Okay. So, no, I I love that framework. That's really probably helpful. I I do wonder if some kids are going to say, well, that's helpful. Thank you for that. It still seems very broad. When they're when they're sitting there like, I don't know if I should go to this university or this university, or I don't know if I should be a doctor or an accountant. Like, help me figure that out. Um, you know, like what what's the what was the next practical step?

Cole Travis: [00:09:12] Yeah. So that's the good framework and then I get three practical questions. Uh, so first, what does the world need? What does the world need? Um, and so you can kind of look at statistics of the rise of AI. You know, I kind of like to say, is what you want to do AI proof? Is there going to be a need for that career path? I think that's just a practical. Yeah, thing to ask. Uh, a statistic I found is 74% of Gen Z employees believe AI will affect their work in the next year. It's kind of interesting. Um, but I looked at the Bureau of Labor statistics and the fastest growing occupations between 25 and 35, 2025 and 2035. Yeah. Um, they're not dependent on salary, by the way, which is kind of interesting. Uh, studies also show that Gen Z desire jobs that are more value-driven than salary-driven. So Gen Z is much more likely to choose a career, which I think biblical worldview directs us to this way that I want a job that makes an impact and makes a difference rather than a salary and a position. That's what Gen Z wants. That's honestly kind of great. I love that. Yeah, it's great. I love that. And so the fastest growing nurse practitioners talks tops the list, 41% growth. That is interesting. Uh, solar installers. I think you know, we both live in the suburbs. The solar guys are I'm constantly getting the ads in my mailbox or on my door and I'm like, no. Yeah. So just from rapid growth, that's 37% growth in the 10-year span. Data scientists, uh physical therapist, psychiatric technicians, occupational therapist, physical uh physicians assistants. So that's the cool man. Yeah. Well, and that's probably a lot of that's probably because AI is not going to be able to be your nurse practitioner. Probably not. Um, or your physical therapy like it's not going to be able to be a physical therapist. It might suggest some things, but you're still going to want someone with you. Yeah. And ministers, I'd say want to. Um, but I like to ask a question, what does the world need? What hurt are you helping? What hurt are you helping? Yep. You know, our Christian worldview teaches us that Jesus gives a purpose to our pain. Everyone goes through pain. And I think the way that you're specifically wired to care the most for problems in the world may be the way God's designing you to solve it. So the purpose of this podcast is to help people understand the world around them. You're really passionate about education and clarity about what our Christian lens should teach us to interpret the world and that's the hurt you're helping now. And so for some people, I really care about fighting uh trafficking or orphanages or digging water wells or like that's the hurt I want to help in the world. And you care most about those certain things. So what does the world need? What hurt are you helping? That's a big question. Um, second is what are you gifted in? What are you what are you good at? What are you it's an internal, you know, what do you see in yourself? And then an external, what do people see in you? So ask a mentor. Um, you may not like uh biology class, but your biology teacher says, hey, you're really good at this. You can consider. So ask the mentors in your life. What are you gifted in? What's the world need? And the third question is, what excites you? Um, which my hot take is this is the least important question. Okay. You know. Yeah, well, well, dive into that a little bit more. What when you say what excites you, I I that can obviously bring about a lot of answers from anybody. I mean, what excites me? Well, I, you know, I love sports. If I could just pick up and be a sports reporter on the side, I'd probably do that, but that's not exactly something you just do, right? Uh, but for a lot of the Gen Z, they're probably thinking, oh, I'd like to be a professional TikToker or YouTuber, um, or something else that might seem not as important in some regards. And some influencers are great and there are a lot of Christian influencers and they've got a gift for creating and doing that type of stuff. But um, yeah, I mean, what what do you what do you think goes deeper with that question?

Cole Travis: [00:13:48] For sure. And I think, now remember, you know, we've already set the framework of like what I do is not where I find my value. My job is not my identity. But at the end of the day, work is directed by God. Work is a good thing. We should be working. So the other end of the extreme is some Gen Z is freaking out about the future. A lot of young guys, uh young students don't care about the future. They're lazy and they want to play video games all day. There's no directed and directed in their life. So, I think it's important to know what excites you, the phrase follow your passions is the most overhyped phrase in existence. Um, I know a lot of you remember the show Mike uh Mike Roe with dirty jobs. I love that show. Um, he has great research and in in documentaries about this, but he had this quote, he was in an episode one time with a guy in a really dirty job and he says, how'd you know you were passionate about this? And the guy looked at him and said, you know, passion is something that's very important. Um, you have to have it, but you never follow it. You have to have passion, but you don't follow your passion. You bring your passion with you. And so he kind of brought up like, what does a Christian shoemaker do? You know, some Christian shoemakers may write John 3:16 under the sole of the shoe and that's your way of sharing the gospel and pointing people to Jesus. But I think biblically, a Christian shoemaker makes good shoes and you should bring passion into your job and everything you put your hand to, we do for the glory of God. Yeah. And so, you know, when you're looking for a job and you're um interviewing, people are looking for passion. They can train skill, but you can't train passion. So what's exciting to you? You know, we want a job that gives you life. You know, there's always going to be a parts of the job that it's just work where there's some parts that are draining you or, you know, I'm more creative and I'm behind a screen or, you know, there's parts of the job that give you life. You know, I think ultimately what God designed for our life is that we work, we make an impact on the world and whatever we do, we do with all we have. And the dream is to use how God's uniquely designed you to do a job that gives you life and ultimately makes uh gives glory to God. So.

Conner Jones: [00:16:53] Yeah, it's a really good point. Uh, there's a it's pursuing excellence. Whatever you are, whatever God's assigned you with, if that is working through spreadsheets in a cubicle, well, you may not love that to every extent of your day, but if you pursue it with excellence, you will have a a general just sense of accomplishment. You will have a sense of I'm doing this because the Lord's placed me here. He's allowing me to have a job where I can be provided for and provide for my family. Um, and so I'm going to do it with the utmost excellence that I can.

Cole Travis: [00:17:22] Yeah, and I will just say, sometimes God's will is a little bit broader than people give it credit for. You know, I think God gives us clear uh lanes. He gives us the ditch of this is what sin is. And I think sometimes if we aim at this is my identity, I know I'm I'm loving God, loving people, making disciples. And if it's a choice between two good things, sometimes God gives you a choice. It's not this mysterious thing you have to search for and uh he'll punish you for not finding it. He wants his will to be known. He's God. He's much bigger than we even comprehend. And so I think he just cares more about who we are and that broad sense, but then if it's between two good things, he could give you a choice.

Conner Jones: [00:18:01] Yeah. Well, that's a really good point. Um, yeah, and when you do allow him to show you the direction and open doors and close doors. Uh and and you ask for him to do that. You know, God tells us to come and pray before him and ask for uh his direction. Right? When you say, God, show me what to do in this moment. Where do I go? What what university do I go to? Or what job do I take? He'll answer uh by opening doors and he may open a door you didn't expect or you didn't want, but his way is always better. Um, I mean, I I think just specifically back to I was planning on going to a big state school with a great football team and everything when I was trying to plan for college and then I just felt a tugging towards DBU for some reason. Um, where there is unfortunately no football. We're listening in your undefeated football. We are undefeated. Um, but nonetheless, went to that campus and it was just clear. God made God was opening a door there, opening a door through scholarships and everything.

Cole Travis: [00:18:54] But what's interesting is you went and he made it clear. Sometimes it's found in stewardship. is I'm just going to try it and see. I think God clarifies our calling and opens opportunities by what's already in our hands more than giving you something new. So for Gen Z, it's like just try it, go there, visit it, get out of your house, try something new and God will quickly tell you, I'm not doing this or hey, I could do that. So you went and then he clarified. So I think that's good.

Conner Jones: [00:19:18] Totally. Yeah, it's pretty cool. All right, let's dive into some of the cultural things that these Gen Z um teenagers and young adults are struggling with and Gen A as well. Um, what is something or maybe several things that you are seeing among your students that you encounter every single day that they are frequently struggling with, uh struggling with. What are those like most worrying trends that we should all be aware of? Whether you are listening to this and you are in Gen Z and you should be aware of this or if you are a parent or a grandparent, what do we need to know?

Cole Travis: [00:19:46] Mhm. Yeah, it's such a great question. And I think there's broad, uh this is what a lot of students are struggling with. What I in my line of work, what I start to see is that it's a little bit split through the genders. And I don't want to immediately pigeon hole one or the other. Um, but I meet with guys. That's just where I go and we have incredible. Yes, we have an incredible team of girls that meets with our women that meets with girls and um, a lot of what young guys, um, parents are concerned that young men don't have the drive that they want to see. Uh, they'd rather be on their phones, scroll, there's no like direction and desire to grow and go somewhere. Uh, but then on a deeper level, there's a battle with pornography that's prevalent everywhere. I think just the access to technology, it's just one of those secret things that no one can know, but um, it's just something you can hide away, but ultimately we know scripture says nothing is hidden from God. Yep. Um, so lust, but then, you know, the topic of the day is gambling. You know, everyone, every everyone wants to ask me, is gambling a sin? Can I do call sheet or draft? It seems like every commercial is sponsored by DraftKings. And we have hit on it so hard on this podcast and in our articles on Densonform.org because we believe it is the new destructive thing that is taking down a younger generation, specifically young men. Uh so yeah, tell us a little bit more about that because you're right. It it is so beyond prevalent. Um, it's not even like we're in Texas and it's not even fully legal here, but yet you're saying that your students are still engaging with it.

Cole Travis: [00:21:15] Yeah. I just think, you know, if you you'll find what you look for. So I just think there is certain things about our culture that, you know, laws either uh promote, permit or prohibit. That's how laws work. So it's either, hey, this is a good thing. There's tax vouchers for this and that. Uh there's prohibit prohibitions of you cannot do this, but then there's a gray area. And I think a lot of people find legally, they find this way of, well, it's not legal, but I can still do it. I can find it. Right. And, you know, honestly, sometimes parents aren't that much help. Uh it's just one of the topics of the day where I think uh not a lot of people have grounded in this is the universal uh orthodox view of it. And I just think the church needs to step in and say, no, look, this is clear. Uh I just want to clarify one thing. A lot of people point to scriptures and they say casting lots is similar. It is not. It's very much not. Um, when you look at throughout instances in the Old Testament, God directs the people of Israel to cast lots and it's like flipping a coin. And so when it's um organizing land or that's how Saul was appointed to king and they cast lots and it fell to him. Um, it was the way that they flipped a coin, gave it to God and he decided. So God directed it. that's not gambling. It's very different. Um, so I just want to to clarify that. But gambling is one of those things, especially with sports betting, it's something you can have in the secret on your phone and no one can know. But I just think biblically, it says don't be a slave to the lender. Yep. Um, that's important too. But, you know, God's designed us to be good stewards of what's in our hands, knowing that he owns it all, but if you are giving something up to chance, as much of a lock that you think it is, it's addictive, it destroys families. And I'm just going to be clear, it it's it's awful and it will destroy your life.

Conner Jones: [00:23:03] Yes. It will. Uh, well, and you're saying, you know, some of these guys are are hiding it, but I think a lot of them are also talking about it and sharing and they're sitting in circles together watching a game and like, whoa, I placed this bet and that parlay. Did you win? Did you know? Um, I don't know if that's true for the students you're engaging with, but I do know it is like it's now a social thing for a lot of guys. Uh and uh they're texting about it or they're they're they're working together to figure out what they should bet. Uh it is on every sports podcast, which is a very popular podcast realm for young men in their 20s and 30s and teenage years now. Um and I I'm sad to hear that it's impacting teenagers so badly. But we've talked about that here on this podcast multiple times about the way that they are targeting those people. And now we're learning that AI, uh I think it's uh DraftKings is using AI to target people who lose more often and give them VIP statuses so that they'll keep coming back and keep losing, making bad bets, man. They don't care about you. They don't care about you, dude. They don't care about you. They want your money. Social media wants you uh on the app, the sports betting things, they want you involved. They don't want you to win. Hello. So they don't care about you. Why would you spend so much of your money giving you something that they don't care about? Right. You're a number, you're a consumer and it's awful.

Cole Travis: [00:24:12] So that's the men.

Conner Jones: [00:24:13] Well, and I just want to say parents, you got to, I mean, you got to ask your and this could be girls too. I don't think it they really target men and it is a more male-oriented thing to be on these DraftKings and FanDuels and Calshis and Polymarket apps. You've got to ask your sons. If you have a teenage son, if you have a son in their 20s, are they engaging with this? And if they are, how frequently? Like it you should encourage them to delete these apps. Um, because at a young age when you're still developing, man, it is so easy to get that addiction and to um want to just keep coming back and chase that dopamine high of a win. Um a seldom win. Yeah.

Cole Travis: [00:24:51] It starts small, but it's a slippery slope that will destroy your life.

Conner Jones: [00:24:54] Yep. Uh, on the female side, Yeah. what's the biggest thing? I know you're not talking to them individually specifically, but you're hearing from your your um the the women on your staff and you're hearing from probably just the girls in the student mission in general. What are they struggling with?

Cole Travis: [00:25:08] Yeah, I think uh the broad category would probably be self-image. I I think Yeah. um, eating disorders is a big common uh discussion. Um, which falls under uh overeating, undereating, self-harm is in that category too. Just overall, it's rooted in comparison and a just devaluing and destroying God's design of you specifically. Um, you know, talk about AI again, you know, there's so many different um beauty standards and it's interesting because they're not real. Right. Uh, and so it's like that isn't real. Uh, if it's absolutely perfect, it's not real. Uh, and if it's real, it's not perfect. And that's what's beautiful about biblical design for marriage, for example, is, you know, I love my wife, you love your wife for all the good, but the flaws per se is what is what makes them who they are. And I just want to say to every young lady is that God's designed you the way you are in your time, um, and that looking left and right, you know, it's not specifically in in scripture, but it's like one of the verses that are attributed to the Bible that's not in the Bible, but comparison is the thief of joy. That is very true that but when you look left and right, I think you are denying, I think what God is trying to give you to grow in and and steward yourself. And so what someone else is going through, what someone else has, that's their own battle and that's their own walk with the Lord. But what we are ultimately responsible for is is what's in our hands. And look, um, I think the results and solution is great mentors, solid community. And I just think, you know, when you have people that know everything about you that you can go to that know care about you and love Jesus, that's the group you should run to. And so a lot of self-image, I'd say. Yeah. But as they're still growing and developing, they're not quite yet uh adults. And so it's just it's really sad to see such young students struggle with this. Guys too. I'd say a lot of young guys are taking steroids and trying to grow their muscles. So it's looks maxing is like a thing now. Yes, which is yes. But it's just social media, it's about projection and not authenticity. I think people want that. It's just one of those contradictory ideas. We want authenticity, but we want to look perfect. Um, but that's I think the world they're in right now.

Conner Jones: [00:27:23] Yeah. Well, this is true even for as you continue to age, you start to compare with your neighbors on the left, your neighbors on the right, who has the nicer car and the nicer house and the nicer better job, the all that stuff. And it's so comparison is the thief of joy. Um, and we can't let it steal our joy, but I know as these teenagers are growing and trying to learn about life and that feels like everything to them is how do I look? How do I seem to people outside, uh, whether it's on social media, online or if it's in person. Um, okay, another one that you mentioned to me the other day as we were kind of talking through what we wanted to discuss here was and I thought it was so interesting because it never crossed my mind for men specifically is NIL, name, image and likeness, uh, which is if you are unaware in college in college sports, if you can make it as a college athlete, you can now be paid. Uh, and many, many athletes are paid. Many still are not, uh, and they are on scholarship or they walk on. Uh, maybe they'll get to a a place where they're they're talented enough on the roster of whatever sport they're in to to get paid. But these college athletes are raking in big bucks, especially for being 18, 19, 20 years old. Even if it's like a a $50,000 NIL deal, that's a lot of money when you are 18 or 19 years old. Um, so you mentioned this to me the other day and I was just shocked that they some of these kids you're dealing with and talking to and ministering to are saying or or are at least projecting that they are feeling the pressure of NIL deals. Can you dive into that a little bit?

Cole Travis: [00:28:47] Yeah, for sure. And so I think pressure in of itself comes from the student uh in themselves, uh second, what they think their parents want of them, but then also black and white, a lot of parents are pressuring the students too. But if you think about it this way, if you're an athlete and it's an investment that your family has made and put yourself in the high school students' perspective here, if I do really well and if I really exceed, uh what's possible in the world today is that I could be raking in tens of hundreds, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, the upper echelon is millions, upper four or five million dollars to some of the high end NIL deals. Unbelievable. So now as an adolescent, they're still kids, they're teenagers. They're preparing to potentially provide for their families at the college level where it used to be college students were preparing to provide for their families at the professional level. So that that that pressure still existed, but it was at 21, 22 getting a contract in the NFL. Now we uh shrunk that down to the younger ages where they're still developing, they're still kids. And so what's so sad is the pressure to perform is just shot through the roof of I have to not only get a scholarship, um which is huge. It determines financial pressures determined the decisions for a lot of families, uh ours included, but it was now I'm not just paying for college, it's possible to change my family's life. And so this pressure to perform is crazy. And so I think we just need to be aware of the goals that we're trying to accomplish in certain spheres. We know you play to win the game. We're all competitive. I think as guys or girls too. But I think it needs to be put in its proper place that it's not the child's responsibility to provide for the family. That's the parents to protect and shield and provide. But then when they flip the script of parents maybe living vicariously through their kids or it's, hey Johnny, you better be able to throw a football because we need to pay the mortgage. And they're maybe gambling behind the scenes too. So there's just a lot of just how sin corrupts and distorts culture where the family dynamic sometimes is flipped.

Conner Jones: [00:30:53] Yeah. And this has been true even without NIL where things can be flipped upside down where kids are feeling like they have to provide for their families. Uh this is just now on a much bigger scale. This could be on a national scale. Uh if they're on television, already, that was a thing. I mean, these kids are thrust right into the limelight, which is really hard at their young age. Add in big bucks behind that and it changes the game. And this is not just football. I mean, we're talking basketball, we're talking baseball. There's kids in soccer getting NIL deals. Girls too. I mean, this is not just a male thing. Um but the the basketball and football and male sports are getting those massive, massive deals. But I'm sure this is happening for many students who are trying to figure out even if they're going to a smaller school, they're not going to the Ohio States and the Michigans, but they're going to, you know, a I don't know, Fresno State. Yeah, and they can still rake in some dollars that this is a this is a thing. It's bad. And the the time in your life where you should be exploring and trying new things of I want to try basketball or football or baseball, whatever those things, that's accelerated younger. So it used to be junior high, high school, let me try something new. Now it's you got to figure out if you're going to play select soccer at eight or nine years old. So I think that just is an important thing to know.

Cole Travis: [00:32:02] Yeah.

Conner Jones: [00:32:02] It's great. Yeah, well, and we actually had an article last week uh come out from Jeff Parker. He wrote about the industry of youth sports. It's a whole thing too, which you're probably seeing as well. These kids in select sports and they're every weekend not just local, they're traveling around their state and around their region and they're in these sports that cost tens of thousands of dollars to be playing baseball every Friday, Saturday, Sunday, missing church for it, uh or football or whatever the sport is. It's become a whole industry in and of itself, which is probably not good either. Uh because now parents are paying thousands of dollars for their kids to do that, maybe in the hopes that they'll be good enough to get an NIL deal one day uh and grab the attention of college coaches. But uh I did we should mention while we're on this subject, the Senate did pass the protect college sports Act. It now is going to just sit and wait for the house to come back in Congress. The house is out of Congress until the midterms end, so they'll be back in November and then they will vote on it. They there are Congress members in the house who have suggested they've got qualms with some of the details of the past bill by the Senate. So we'll see what happens there, but that's going to uh interject the government into some of the NIL deals, into some of the transfer aspect and all that, which we've discussed here on the podcast before. I did want to read a a comment I got from uh Carol. She wrote in to tell us that she actually on this whole subject hates the government getting involved in sports. Uh but she does believe we should go back to playing football for a college education and that was the proper way. So she's suggesting take the money out of the whole thing. Um and that the only way to get through this is we have to boycott the games. Okay. Okay, Carol. Uh that's a hot take. I wonder if she's from Arkansas. I think they're boycotting. Yeah, if you're from Arkansas, you're just going to boycott anyway. They are so bad. That's a whole another subject. Um basketball season's coming Arkansas. Yeah, no kidding. Uh I well, and boycotting the games is not a bad idea. That is one way to get change. I think getting the entire nation to just stop watching uh college sports would be really, really tough. I've had the same thought with the Cowboys. Like if we really want Jerry Jones to make a change, everybody's got to stop watching the games and attending the games. It's going to take a fan base like, you know, revolt. Um and other, you know, in professional sports, when you get one city behind something, they they they will do that. College sports would be tough especially across the whole thing. But thanks for that, Carol. Uh all that to say, NIL is it's it's changing the dynamic of our country. It's changing the dynamic of the way these young kids are seeing a potential pathway in college sports. It's very interesting. Um and handing the keys of a Ferrari or a Lamborghini uh so to speak to these young teenagers and letting them be flashy at 18, 19 years old. I just can't imagine, man. Uh really hard. Um, which leads me to my next question. Let's talk about Gen Alpha and Gen Z and their communication styles. Yeah. What what do we need to know and specifically, what is dead panning?

Cole Travis: [00:34:46] Dead panning. I maybe you've heard of this, maybe you haven't, but when you consider Gen Z and um Shane Pruitt has an incredible resource called uh reaching Generation Alpha. He says it this way that if Gen Z is digitally immersed, Gen Alpha is digitally dependent. And so it's that idea that Gen Z has always had a screen nearby to grab. Um, maybe we remember when social media first started, we kind of knew Facebook was up and coming. We're old enough. Hey, we are elder Gen Z, so we even know what Myspace is. That's right. Most of these kids have never heard of it. Back in our day. We were there when Facebook got going. I know. So it was a new thing. We wasn't really sure, but Gen Alpha, Gen Z was always around. But now Gen Alpha, it's uh it's more their security blanket. So you walk into a room of people you don't know, they're grabbing their phone. Uh kids, iPads, I know it's a challenge with a lot of parents. I know I don't want to get into that, but it's it's a security blanket. And so how that affected their communication styles is interesting. So if you're digitally immersed, you communicate through text messaging, through Snapchat, through these digital mediums. And so when you're talking face-to-face like this, uh it's very different. So you and I are talking and when you say something, I'm looking at you, I'm reading your facial expressions and we respond immediately. If you're texting, there's no facial expression and you have time to think and type out your response. Um, and so dead panning is when you're looking at a Gen Z person and there's blank stare. This is kind of the the cultural, you know, topic for it is dead dead pan stare and they take a long time to respond. And so say you're a Sunday school teacher on a Sunday morning and you ask a question and they're just no reaction. No response. You're just like, are you even processing what I'm saying? Yes. Yeah, I've experienced this with young kids. Oh yeah. And so older generations, us included, think it's disrespectful or just that body language is I don't understand, I'm not listening, I don't care. But that's not necessarily true. And I just want to tell older generations, if you care about younger Gen Z and Gen Alpha, they listen more than you think. They retain more than you think. Um, they care more than you think. But the communication style is interesting. They grew up in a world where they could think about their response, type it back and it's a more thought out crafted thing. But for us, it had to be more immediate and it's just interesting how that's affect affected their communication styles um in that way. I will point out, Gen Z really values, you know, authenticity is the is the word of the day and so they really value um even unpolished things. I think that's why Snapchat uh grew in popularity was uh be real is another example of I don't want to just post a polished thing, I want to show real. But at the end of the day, I think text messaging uh along with this, they want an unpolished view, but they still chose to post that. So it's still I had control of this unpolished thing. So I think it comes down to control and polishing of a message you want to send out in a digital age rather than a face-to-face interpersonal communication.

Conner Jones: [00:37:50] Yeah. Well, and then with this, let's talk about their brain development because this is this is affecting their communication. This is affecting the way that they are processing through all the topics we've discussed, through the struggles that they're dealing with uh culturally, right? What have you learned about these teenagers' brain development and what does it mean for when like they encounter something that is hard or they suffer or they're in a trial, um, and they're age 14, 15, 16. What is their brain development like in this situation?

Cole Travis: [00:38:18] Yeah, so I think this whole conversation, when you look at a generation, there's cultural uniqueness uh that's different for every generation, but I think there's consistency over every generation that every teenager historically has been this way because of the brain development. So this is something that's true of every teenager of any age because of how quickly the brain develops. So the part of your brain, the amygdala that pretty much emits our emotions, develops way faster than our prefrontal cortex. So that's the um, you know, filter. And so teenagers, that's why teenagers are more impulsive. Uh that's why they react faster. Um and so what that result in is the real reality when you talk about suffering, this is when it gets pretty pretty sad is when then there's no filter to your emotions. It's not just the words you say or how you react. It's a timeline that you put to pain. And when a student encounters grief or disappointment or depression, anxiety, it's difficult to put a timeline to it of today was bad, but tomorrow may be different. Um, and that's what really brings to light, um, you know, when we see the news or anything about um these permanent decisions students can make about their life and they have to have someone in their life to tell them, hey, it's going to be okay. You're going to make it through it. So it as the brain develops, it's difficult to put a timeline to pain and I think that explains a little more of if you see a student reacting in a certain way or um we teach them boundaries and all of those, but I think that's important to understand about the brain development on that.

Conner Jones: [00:39:53] Yeah, it is. Well, and the impulsive decision part is interesting too. It's like everybody's experienced, well, we were all teenagers, so we remember what that was like. Uh or you are around a teenager a lot and you're like, you did what? Why did you do that? Like, it could be something as simple as like, why did you make that decision about what you ate for dinner? Like, what do you mean you ate your cake for dinner? Like something like that. It's that simple, but big decisions too. And then that's also back to the gambling thing. They're praying on the impulsiveness. We want you to just hit the button because you're impulsive and you will bet $25 on something. That's an aspect of all of young people's brains is the impulsiveness and then trying to process through things. It's it's different than everybody who's got a more mature mind and life. Um and so it it does it is a call for us who are older and for anybody of older generations to minister to these kids who need that direction, who when they are struggling, when they are in something so hard or they're telling you they're in something hard that might seem minor to you, but it's actually really hard for them. Yeah. You need to listen and you need to counsel and you need to minister to them and love them and pray for them and give them guidance. They're looking for that. Uh because they're not going to find the right guidance on Tik Tok or from another 14-year-old a lot of the times. But they will come to you as a parent or a grandparent or as a mentor and uh if you lead a life group of teenagers, give them that guidance. That's what they're looking for.

Cole Travis: [00:41:12] Yeah, and I'd say two things. One, that's why scripture says to count it joy when you experience suffering because it produces steadfastness. So it's literally saying is assign joy to the suffering. So that's a choice of how to interpret suffering is I assign joy to it. And then the result is that it produces steadfastness. That's endurance. So meaning I can continue to go through suffering because I've counted it joy because Christ ultimately displays how to suffer. But then another thing, you don't have to be a teenager to reach a teenager. I want to say that. You don't have to act like a teenager to reach one. So if you're thinking, I really care about Gen Z or younger students, but I'm not cool enough to serve in the youth group. I'm a youth pastor, uh shameless plug, serve in your church's student ministry even if you're 50, 60, 70 years old, you're not too old to love this next generation because when a child goes through suffering, they will always go to the oldest person in the room that they know loves them and loves Jesus. When they rubber hits the road, when they are in a crisis, they will go to the oldest person that loves Jesus and loves them. So be you, be yourself, but love that person, love that student and relationships is the speed that ministry goes. So help them assign timelines to pain of this is what I've gone through, this is how we can get through it and scriptures are our guide to do that.

Conner Jones: [00:42:24] Good stuff. Um, this has been a great conversation, but I kind of want to take a more positive element and wrap us up with this. Let's let's look at the things we should see that are hopeful in uh this generation. What is it about this generation that gives you hope? What are like the most positive qualities of Gen Alpha and Gen Z that should make us go, actually, they're going to be just fine.

Cole Travis: [00:42:44] Oh yeah. I love that. I think, man, I I've always loved studying this age group because there is an urgency to this ministry. So say I'm a youth pastor, so I know I'll have students from seventh grade to 12th grade. There's an urgency because we're going to send them into the world, but then there's an opportunity because, you know, we've talked about with careers and jobs, they're purpose-driven. They love to make a difference. They love uh charity, they love um advocacy. So I I think that's really great how they're they want to make an impact in the world, not just grind, make money, you know, be in charge, those things. And so I think as the church and uh Christians around the world can can help steer that of we're launching you into the world to make a difference for Jesus. And I just think we've seen that over and over. Um, you know, I'll say like Charlie Kirk had an amazing following with young people because he wanted to um it was an authentic way to be engaged. Uh Bryce Crawford is a great person as well where young people are following him because they want to learn how to be evangelist. But we see revivals popping off on college campuses of hundreds of people getting baptized. That's happening in real time now. Yeah, it's awesome. So they're value-driven, they want to make an impact in the world. And so I just think it's exciting to see that if we can teach them proper theology, proper doctrine, understanding what scripture says, we won't have to give them passion. They'll bring it with them and we just help guide. So I'm I'm really excited about that. They want to own it. They don't just want to be a kid, they want to run. So give them leadership positions, give them directions and they'll run.

Conner Jones: [00:44:12] Yeah, that's really awesome. Um, yeah, when you're in conversations with these kids, it's so I I should say this, it feels so easy, um, if you're not around students all the time of this age group all the time to just group them all together and just to say, oh, Gen Z, you know, they've got this problem and this problem, but they are really good at social media. You know, it's really easy to do that. But I think it's also good to take a step back and think about each of these kids individually and be like, well, they are gifted. That kid's gifted in that. That kid's gifted in that. And God can use them in such unique ways. Um, whether it's, you know, sports or if it's they are going to be an accountant. Um, whatever it is, it's going to be really cool to see how they they grow up and pursue what God's calling them to. you know, and that's where we get to counsel them, follow God's steps and he'll take you the right way, which is cool. I think there is a lot of hope for this generation and I love their passions, um, which is really cool. And they are creative, man. Yeah. They they have more outlets for creativity than previous generations have to be online or on social media or use uh tools, digital tools to create things. It's really cool. I I would love to see how they use that gifting. Okay, uh I've got a kind of a hot take question for you. That's related to Gen Z here. Um because this was a topic of debate all over the social media last week. It really blew up on Tik Tok and I'm sure you saw this. Um I don't think I prepped you for this question. You probably you probably know where I'm going with this. So it came about last week that this recruiter on Tik Tok was like, hey, Gen Z kids, stop showing up to job interviews in person with iced coffee in your hands. She she listed a several reasons. One was it looks too casual. Like you're it makes it look like you are making a stop on a bunch of errand runs. Like this is just a stop for your day. Uh it leaves a wet ring on the the table or the desk that you're interviewing at. It's loud. Um and it's just kind of got this obnoxious feel to it, especially for older generations who would be who are just almost mortified. Like, why are you showing up with iced coffee in your hands? Is it wrong to bring iced coffee to a job interview or not? Like should we should we care?

Cole Travis: [00:46:08] I would say no. If you're at a coffee shop, probably different, but I think from both things need to happen. Sometimes there's a generational finger pointing finger pointing I want to avoid where young people are this way or older people are this way. But I do think it's almost like two cultures that need to learn each other's language. So I love that we're talking as an older generation how to understand Gen Z. It does need to go the other way around where Gen Z needs to understand, well, how does the world work? How should I present myself? And so Gen Z has a low value of authority. Uh just because you have a position doesn't mean you have influence. Um, you know, they want bosses that care for them. Um and there's a they value transparency. So they'll bring that into a job interview because uh they would say this is what I want from you, but they will give that back to you. So it's this really casual. I I saw this post the other day about how Gen Z's resigning from jobs. It's kind of interesting. They're resigning at age 24. Oh yeah. Well, they like they text, hey, uh this culture's toxic, see you or they write it on a napkin or, you know, I just think for yes, it's great that we're understanding Gen Z, but it needs to come the other way around. So Gen Z needs to understand, um, you know, I think my parents were a little old-fashioned, you know, print out a resume and go somewhere and bring it to them. That may work, that may not. But again, I think I want to go back to if you're a Gen Z listening, people look for passion uh over skill, uh but professionalism is not a lost art. Um, professionalism is not a personality trait. It's a skill you learn. I want to throw that out there too. Some young people are like, well, I'm just not professional. You can learn to be professional. Um, it it's a I think it falls under the hospitality world. Um, hospitality sphere where I'm going into a job interview and I want to present that I care about this conversation. I want to care about the potential of me working here. So I want to act in a way as if I already work here. So I'm going to present professionally. I'm going to play by your rules. It's just a respect and it's just a way that Gen Z can can learn back to where they would like to go.

Conner Jones: [00:48:10] Yeah, it's just interesting. I I love it well, and everybody started arguing online about it. The Gen Zers are like, well, it shows my personality and aren't you going to be chill? Like it it tells me if you're a chill job workplace or not. And then the older people are like, this is just wrong. Don't do this. Like don't don't bring your iced coffee in. Um so I I love seeing the debate, but I appreciate that perspective. It's really good stuff. My personal perspective is I would not recommend it. I would not do that. I would not do it. Um if you have to question it, then probably don't do it. That's a good rule of thumb, Connor. Yeah. Uh so that's that's great stuff. All right, let's hit on a couple things and check in real fast for the news week. This has been a great conversation about Gen Z. Um and I'm so grateful for your time here, Cole, but I I I would love to talk about a couple things happening in culture this week. We had five men arrested outside of a US air base in the UK over the weekend, uh at potentially planning a terrorist attack to on our base over there. Uh there's been speculation that they were tied to Iran, like these guys were trying to get to our bombing aircraft there that have been launching bombing raids essentially from that base in the UK to Iran throughout this war. Uh those five men were arrested in the middle of the night after a farmer saw them about a half mile from the base and was like, hey, this is something doesn't look right here. He calls the police and they come in and they arrest them. The next day, those five guys were released on bail. Uh, which might strike you as like, I'm sorry, what? You're telling me you arrested these five guys who are about to do an attack on our base and we the UK police just released them on bail. There's a lot of questions about that. Uh there's apparently not enough evidence to show that they were actually about to perform an attack, but they did have three white vans with some sort of explosive material in the middle of the night, half a mile from the base. That said, Dr. Ryan Denson wrote an article about that on the focus this week, talking about more details behind that potential attack or not attack and how we can respond as Christians to just the unknown there and is there more we should be worried about if these five guys were out, will they do something again or did it show that there's actually another terrorist cell that we should be concerned about? All that to lead into another thing that happened right before we came into this room to record. We were trying to catch up on the on the the news here. Uh, Fly Dubai, which is an airline out of obviously Dubai, United Arab Emirates. This airliner was flying from uh I can't remember which country, maybe the UAE to Israel. And then we were looking at this right before we logged on. Um, it sounds like one of the pilots on board tried to essentially hijack the aircraft, take out the other pilot and wanted to either crash this plane or land it and take everybody hostage as it had a lot of Israeli people on board. It seemed like he wanted to kill everybody on board, potentially maybe crash it into a city in Israel as some sort of terrorist attack in that way. Thankfully, it sounds like the captain and some other people on board were able to take this guy down uh and prevent him from taking control of the aircraft and they were able to do an emergency landing in Saudi Arabia. This all happened over Saudi Arabia, but it sounds like they plunged 17,000 feet in in two minutes. And all the passengers on board were like freaking out, of course. Um, this happened like four or five hours ago. So we don't know a lot of details as we're recording this right now. By the time you listen, you'll hear a lot more, but do you have any just thoughts there? I mean.

Cole Travis: [00:50:14] Well, it's wild. One thing we were talking about is that it was a co-pilot. I think that was a big part of the story was it was the co-pilot that hijacked the plane. And I think it just goes to show uh the lengths in which our enemies will infiltrate different infrastructures that they need to do. And so this isn't just this isn't uh like other hijacking scenarios we know like 9/11 where it was a passenger that overtook the plane. It was the co-pilot itself. This guy was already in the cockpit. He was already in the cockpit, trained, hired uh in that seat. And so and trusted. And trusted by the airline, trusted by everybody on that plane. You feel like you have a trust when you step onto these aircraft. Uh trusted enough where Israel's letting them in. Israel doesn't just let anybody into their country. Like this guy would have had to have gone through screening. Every pilot, everybody who goes into Israel goes through some sort of pre-screening process. Um, so they scrambled jets up uh in preparation to do something if they had to, but it sounds like the plane landed and everybody, all the passengers were okay. It sounds like some of them actually were bloodied up in the in the struggle on the flight. So thankfully, nothing happened there. But just something, yeah, it's a good point. Like you got to be you got to be aware. Everybody has to be aware when you're in wartime, when you are not in a region that is fully safe or at peace, there's always this threat, right?

Conner Jones: [00:52:29] For tune in, we're just going to say obviously, there's always football. Football Cole's a big football fan too. College football's been great. Uh, NFL football's been great except for the Cowboys. Don't want to talk about it. Last seven seconds of the game. The Ravens. Yeah, just bad. Uh the Ravens. In Brazil too. Just the worst. Walk off field goal. But well, and something else that's painful here is the MLB playoffs started. That's what I want to mention and our Texas Rangers did not make the playoffs. I'm sorry for your Rangers, Connor. Yeah, well, are they not your Rangers? Well, you know, I'm a football guy, soccer guy. I guess I'm a bandwagoner when it comes to the Rangers. In a way, I am too. I don't really watch a lot of the regular season when they make the post season, I I get fully dialed in. But uh yeah, but MLB playoffs, man, baseball playoffs are just fun. There's something about October baseball that's just you start to get cold up in parts of the country. The the stadiums are full when you hear the crack of a baseball bat on a home run and the whole stadium cheers. It chills, you know, chills. It's America. That's a perfect way to put it. Uh so the wild card games have started. By the time you listen to this, some of those will have wrapped up because they're just three game series. Uh but we've got right now the Philly's playing the Brave, we got the Cubs playing the Padres, the White Sox and the Astros. So both Chicago teams in there. How about that? Uh the White Sox have been apparently blessed by the Pope. He sent them a blessing. Oh. Whatever that means. I really don't know. I don't understand what that means. Um and I don't think it necessarily means that they're going to win the World Series. Yeah. We got the Red Sox versus the Yankees, the classic old uh rivalry there and then the Dodgers, Guardians, Brewers and Rays all got that first buy and so they are waiting for their opponents up there in the division series. So over the next few weeks, we're going to see this uh journey to the World Series for two of these teams. Super exciting times. That's exciting. Yeah. Everybody, thank Cole for coming on here.

Cole Travis: [00:53:31] Thank you guys so much. Love the culture brief, love what you all are doing. I'm excited to be a part of this today.

Conner Jones: [00:53:36] Yeah, grateful for your time, grateful for just your heart for Gen Z and Gen Alpha and students and the fact that you came and shared that with us and how we can be thinking about them, praying for them, ministering to them. Um and then if you are listening to this and you're in Gen Z or Gen Alpha, we're praying for you. Um and listen to God's will for your life. Uh let him guide your path. I think that's what we can say to them as an encouragement. Um yeah, thanks Cole.

Cole Travis: [00:54:08] Thank you guys.

Conner Jones: [00:54:09] Y'all have a great week. [00:54:11] Thank you for joining us on this week's episode of Culture Brief, a Denison Forum podcast. All articles and videos mentioned in this episode will be linked in the show notes. If you want to help us reach more believers with truth in today's chaotic culture, please share this podcast around and leave a five-star rating and review. All episodes are produced by Sound of a Rose. For more information, you can visit soundofarose.com and see you next Thursday.