Flock cameras are everywhere, Meta's $17B settlement, Dolly Parton & college football returns | Ep. 83

Conner Jones: [00:00:02] Hi, I'm Conner Jones.

Clayton Harris: [00:00:03] And I'm Clayton Harris.

Conner Jones: [00:00:04] And this is Culture Brief, a Denison Forum podcast where we navigate the constant stream of top stories and news, politics, sports, pop culture, and so much more. We do it all from a Christian perspective. And man, Clayton, welcome back to the show.

Clayton Harris: [00:00:16] Thank you, man. Thanks for having me back.

Conner Jones: [00:00:17] Yeah, we're glad you're here. What are we going to be talking about today?

Clayton Harris: [00:00:19] Uh, a lot of big tech references, mass surveillance, uh, America's sweetheart, Dolly Parton, college football is back, uh, and an exciting announcement from Connor and Denson Ministries coming later in the podcast. Let's jump right into the brief. Connor, take it away.

Conner Jones: [00:00:36] The brief. Yeah, you said it, man. Big tech. It feels like there's, you texted me the other night and said, I think there's a big tech reckoning happening. Um, and I think that's for several reasons. We've got a handful of things happening with just the big tech world that Americans seem to be kind of revolting against. Um, we can start off with just saying data centers. That is one of the big subjects this summer as these AI companies are working to build massive data centers across the country. Josh Miller and Micah Tomasella actually did a deep dive on the data center kind of revolt happening, uh, back at the end of July. That was episode 79. So if you are interested in learning more about that, go listen to them. They talk about why people don't want data centers, but why AI companies do, what's the pros and cons there. But I want to hit on something else, and I know Clayton's going to talk a little bit later about what's going on with Meta, um, aka Facebook and so many of these big tech social apps. But there's another big thing that's really taken the country by storm these past few weeks, Clayton. I'm sure you've seen it. Flock cameras. Have you all heard of these things? If you haven't, you're about to and you're going to start probably recognizing maybe some cameras in your neighborhood, on your streets that you weren't paying attention to until this moment. Um, but they've really kind of been all over the news. These are cameras that are license plate readers. They are on streets all across the nation. Uh, in fact, this system, it's called the Flock system. This company was founded in 2020 or in 2010 somewhere in there in Atlanta. They started putting cameras up in Texas, actually, where we are located. That's what, uh, that was their first entrance into society in Texas in 2020. And since then, they have put in 120,000 license plate reading cameras and surveillance systems in every single state except for Alaska. So they are pretty much everywhere in the country. Uh, 6,000 communities have agreed to a contract with them to put their license plate readers in their towns. Clayton, have you heard of these?

Clayton Harris: [00:02:26] Uh, I have heard of these and I will say once you see them on the street, you will find them everywhere you go and you will it'll be really hard to not see them. They're behind, uh, speed limit signs, they're behind any sort of yield or turn sign, they're in parking lots of all of your, uh, major grocery store chains. Uh, the big thing is safety is what they're propping as safety. But I think the general American concern is how much data are you collecting, who owns that data, how are you eventually selling that data? It's a private corporation, Flock is. Uh, so is Axon, you might hear as another brand that is, uh, touting this level of camera and AI technology, uh, in the name of safety. But they're really data harvesting is probably the biggest American concern, which is the need for all these data centers, the government data harvests, uh, harvests. What, what is, I think the biggest concern we should have is who owns our data? That's going to be the next, the next big issue in this, in this world.

Conner Jones: [00:03:23] Oh, that's always been an issue. I mean, who owns our data when we log on to every single app? I mean, a lot of people have made the point like, doesn't Tik Tok do this? Aren't we not giving our location and data to, uh, China when every time you log on to the Tik Tok app? Technically, you probably are. Like, this is a problem across the board. But with these license plate readers specifically, they are contracted with 7,000 government agencies currently. That is mostly small town, big city police departments, um, and other law enforcement agencies. But that is 40% of the departments across the entire United States. So this is widespread. Uh, the company is now valued at $8.4 billion. So they are raising up the the ante on what surveillance could look like as a value chain because of the data what you're talking about. Um, so let's talk about, okay, the pros and the cons. What what are people saying are the pros to these, why should they be around? And then I'll dive into the cons. The pros, here's what people say. Well, let's start off with just Flock itself. The company themselves say they can help police find stolen cars, locate wanted people, and solve other types of crimes. They claim to have helped find 10,000 missing people last year alone, uh, and then 20,000 cars that were stolen, they say they helped locate in July of this year alone. Uh, and they say they supported over 1 million criminal investigations and 20% of the solved cases in the regions where its cameras were deployed. Their CEO, Garrett Langley said, we're not Big Brother, we're focused on protecting people. Of course, he's going to say that, right? He's the CEO of the company. Um, but and and like, for instance, here's a couple of examples. One license plate reader in the state of Florida actually led to a man being arrested as he was threatening a mass shooting. Um, another helped find the guy who the second assassination attempt on Donald Trump in Florida at the golf course. They used these cameras to help track him down on the highways as he fled the scene. Um, so, you know, law enforcement, they like this. They're like, hey, we're solving crimes here. This is helping us. This is a tool and a resource we can use to bring down the number of crimes, to find missing people, to find missing cars, to get criminals. Of course, it's a selling point to them. Of course, it's attractive to them. And and honestly, you could say, well, shouldn't it be for us too? Don't we want to keep our community safer? Don't we want these, um, cameras to be used in this way? And the answer, I think is yes, we would want them to be used in this way. But the the question then that the detractors have is, well, at what cost? Um,

Clayton Harris: [00:05:43] you know, I'd I mean, I'd add they are being used in this way, but they are also being used in other ways. Exactly. Uh, police officers stalking ex-girlfriends. Uh, pointed at parks with children and people having access to this data. I think there are a lot of concerns, uh, considering these the implementation of these contracts and these cameras are not voted on by anybody, but they're paid by the taxpayer dollar. It is a local law enforcement, uh, it's the sheriff, it's the county, uh, it's the city council that are approving these contracts and spending money that you are paying that you're paid your taxes for, uh, and it's a breach of your privacy in that case. You don't really have a say. So this that's strictly my opinion. And I I think that there's a lot of detractor info here. I think there's also some pros to this. These are great pros from 10,000 missing people. We've had an issue with missing children in this country. We want to find them. Can these things be be used for good? Yes. Uh, I think, uh, you know, the the worst thing that could happen is I'm from the government and I'm here to help, as Ronald Reagan would say. Yep. So I I think that there's a, uh, there's some serious concerns that need to be addressed before we full on bring these into our societies.

Conner Jones: [00:06:53] Yeah, and I I do tend to agree with that. Um, you know, and and Flock, what they would say to the privacy issue, and we'll dive into this a little bit more, but they would say, well, we're only tracking license plates. We're not grabbing faces and we're only doing it in public places, places that are not private spaces. Like when you enter a road, it's a public space. Like there are there have always been cameras on the road. You can drive down a highway and the state or the government or the tollway provider has cameras on the road because they're watching for accidents and stuff. So you're always being tracked in that way too. Maybe not tracked, you're being seen on these cameras. This one is a bigger system. In fact, the New York Times, they did a huge deep dive into this last week. They, uh, they wrote, Americans are accustomed to surveillance cameras. Like I just said, right? Uh, they put them on their doorbells and tolerate them on street corners, offices and restaurants. But what sets Flock's cameras apart is they are connected, creating a vast searchable national network, often surprising residents, like you just mentioned, Clayton, who did not realize that their local governments had signed them up and are raising fears of a Big Brother style surveillance. And they are hard to miss once you start noticing them. New York Times said that and you just said that, right? There is a sense of, man, once I know it's there, you start seeing them, but also, whoa, why did we not know this was here? Did our government, our local government just agree to this type of surveillance without our knowledge? I think that's what a lot of people are concerned about. Um, and specifically on the political spectrum here, Republicans, they're making it known that they they believe that this is some sort of government overreach, right? That they are worried that this is going to put us on a system towards what China has, where China is literally, they are doing the the facial recognition and they are tracking people's every movements across their cities, across their towns, right? That's not what we want. That's not what Americans want at all. And I think that's where people are getting fearful of like, is this our first step in that direction? Uh, Democrats, meanwhile, are more concerned that like ICE and other federal agencies are going to use these cameras to track down immigrants or other people that they see as vulnerable. Um, Flock for clarification does not currently have a contract with ICE or any federal agencies, but those federal agencies can request use of the tool through a local department if they're looking for somebody. So if the if an ICE wants to work with a police department, uh, and use this tool, they can share that data. The police department can. Um, but another major concern, like you just mentioned, Clayton, and Dr. Ryan Dennison wrote about Flock cameras on in the August 14th edition of the Daily Article newsletter. He said this, even if the vast majority of police use their access to help the general public, it doesn't take many bad examples to demonstrate why people are afraid of this system's continued expansion. Exactly what you mentioned a minute ago. Yeah, we have seen at least 50 police officers, uh, misuse the tool for stalking or, um, tracking down people that they had no legal cause to do. It was basically warrantless, which is what China does, right? They are they don't have a warrant to track these people, but they are they are doing it anyways. Um, so yeah, there are many thousands of police officers who can use this and won't do something like that. They're using it for the great purposes. But those few bad apples remind you that, ah, do we really want this tool in the hands of just anybody? And who owns this data, right? Um, and another concern is, man, a lot of this is going through an AI and computer system, uh, that this system is using to track license plates. So there have been people pulled over and and taken, you know, like police are pulling them over, guns out, up to their car because they've they are thinking this is the stolen car or the car with the missing person. So you're getting innocent people. There was like a 76-year-old lady in Colorado who was pulled over, guns whipped out by the cops because they thought she had stolen this vehicle. And she had to call a local news station to get it clarified. Like just so bad, right? None of that's great.

Clayton Harris: [00:10:23] Right? I mean, I I think that that like I I now that we're talking about it, uh, all of your phones will be reels of of misuse of flock cameras. I can guarantee that. And you'll see exactly what we're talking about. I I saw a video the other day of a husband and wife get pulled over with their six-month-old in the car. The camera read the license plate incorrectly by one letter, came back as stolen. They pulled them over, pulled them both out in cuffs, six-month-old, uh, in a car seat, sitting in the car while they waited to verify. At the end of it, cops go, oh yeah, sorry, you know, our cameras read this wrong. You know, you're good you're good to go. Have a good day. But there's got to be repercussions for at least that.

Conner Jones: [00:10:59] I think there's I think there are people questioning and some of these people who have been caught in these situations like that is like, who, well, who can they sue? Who's who's in charge of this? And I think there's argument about that like, well, is it really Flock's claiming, well, it's it's not a perfect system. It's still computer oriented. But hey, your system caused quite a bit of distress for a lot of these people. Um, so what are like just average Americans doing about this? I think this is kind of interesting. We are seeing people shoot the cameras. We are seeing them saw down these cameras. A lot of them are on big poles. They're sawing these poles down. Um, we are seeing them stand in front of them or sit in front of them for hours upon hours on roadsides with big signs, like holding the signs up with a big sign blocking the camera's view. Um, and people are also taking to an app called Deflock. This app is where people are tracking cameras that they see. You can log on to this app and or you can even just go to the website and see the locations of all the cameras that have been tracked through this app. Um, and a lot of people are downloading this app now because they're like, I want to know where it is and then I want I want to report the cameras that I see. Um,

Clayton Harris: [00:11:58] legal disclaimer, we are not recommending, uh, that you do any of these things to destroy those cameras. Um, use any tools, any apps to figure out where they are. We're not recommending that. Uh, there are tools that could tell you how to do it, but we don't recommend that.

Conner Jones: [00:12:12] I don't please don't go vandalize these cameras. That's not

Clayton Harris: [00:12:15] And say that we said so. We didn't say that.

Conner Jones: [00:12:17] I just think it's interesting that this is what people are doing as a response. Now, there are more diplomatic things happening. A lot of people are actually just going to their town hall meetings. Um, and there's been a lot of uproar in these town hall meetings about these cameras. And in fact, 70 communities to this point, and probably more by now, have actually ended their contracts with Flock because these town hall meetings and the citizens spoke up. That's probably the better way to go about this. If you're if you're upset, go to your town hall meeting, talk to your local representatives and see if they can do something about it. Uh, um, now,

Clayton Harris: [00:12:46] maybe maybe I'll add, you know, I mentioned Axon earlier as another company that does this. Uh, don't there are are are counties in Texas and cities in Texas that have denounced Flock and gone away from them, but then have immediately signed Axon. So I think there's a, uh, there's an awareness that needs to happen as Christians, as citizens in this country, uh, of how our local governments are operating and what is being done to prevent these breaches of liberty. So keep that in mind. I think that's a that's a quick call out.

Conner Jones: [00:13:17] They are definitely not the only company doing this. I think they are now the like recognizable one, maybe the largest system and they were kind of probably at the forefront of it. Kind of like when you think of when you think of they're Kleenex or like Ring, right? When you think of the doorbell cameras, there's now a million companies that do that, but everybody thinks of Ring because they they started it and they are widespread. Speaking of Ring, even they pulled away from a contract with Flock. They were potentially going to get integrated into their system so that Ring cameras on doorbells at homes and apartments and everything were going to be part of their system. They ended that contract. Now they say it's because of financial reasons and it was not going to be, uh, a good, like it wasn't going to be good efficiencies and they had all these like, you know, very corporate words in their statement about why, but there's a lot of other reasons why people assume that they pulled back including all the way back to a Super Bowl ad.

Clayton Harris: [00:14:02] Do you say, do you remember when they announced that integration or at least how their how their properties and units would actually work? Uh, Super Bowl of last year and they was that February 8th, uh, was when they ran the ad and February 12th is they said, oh, this is the conclusion, you know, we're going to cancel this partnership. Very interesting. Um, I don't think you spend millions upon millions of dollars for a 60-second ad in the commercial, one of the most valuable pieces of marketing space. Uh, if you're not serious about a product rollout and the feedback they received from that, uh, while they have not confirmed it, is very likely to influence, uh, their deflocking of their partnership.

Conner Jones: [00:14:39] Yeah, you might remember that Super Bowl ad. It was a Ring ad and it showed that, you know, you could track dogs, like lost your dog. Yeah, they were showing like lost dogs in the neighborhood. And then everybody was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. You just showed the entire country that Ring is going to be part of like a mass surveillance system. Totally backfired. CEO had to apologize. They pulled the ad, never ran again. Like it was it was a big, um, hoopla for Ring. But, uh, just kind of showing you what people are doing. I did look at a map of these Ring cameras to see how many were just on my way here, Clayton. Like I I looked the other day to see what is the amount of cameras between my house and this studio right here. Dude, it was like three dozen that I drove past. There are four in the Kroger parking lot where my family grocery shops, like around the corner from our house. We go to Kroger all the time. There's four just in that parking lot alone. Uh, these are everywhere. So it's something to be just thinking about. Um,

Clayton Harris: [00:15:27] well, pro pros, like a a pro flock person would say, that's got to be the safest parking lot I can ever go to.

Conner Jones: [00:15:32] And honestly, that crossed my mind too. I was like, well, if my truck got stolen in that parking lot, I'm sure we could track it down now, right?

Clayton Harris: [00:15:37] Yes. And to that point, you know, like there is safety, but then you're considering who has access to the data. I know we just reviewed this, but there's there's you can't just say safety for safety's sake. There's there's so much detraction, uh, and availability to this content and to this data that we just need to be so cautious about this. And we need to, you know, we'll talk about personal responsibility this year or the rest of this podcast. Uh, while we can be thankful that there is some level of, uh, corporate safety, government safety, uh, we are responsible for our own well-being and safety and we should be self-reliant, self-reliant on for us and for our children. So I I think we'll we can end that opinion portion there, but

Conner Jones: [00:16:17] Totally. Yeah. So ultimately, I mean, it all comes down to trust, right? Like do we trust the people who have access to the cameras and this data? You may or may not. I mean, do you trust your police department? You may or may not. Do you trust the people in a big corporate office in Atlanta at Flock who have access to this data? It's totally up to you to decide. I will tell you Flock has like changed some of their policies since all this backlash. Like earlier this month, they said that they're not going to store data for 30 days, they're going to start storing it for only seven days. Um, and they're also going to track every single instance of a basically any police department or officer that goes in to do a search, they're going to start tracking all of those searches. So they are also responding to this like they they hear and see the backlash. Like it's it's pretty loud. Um, so they're making differences. But it comes down to this whole trust system, right? Um, and I would say this isn't just questions for Flock, this is for all big tech or any other big company or even maybe your own employer, like anything like that, right? Um, data is being collected on us everywhere. So we got to trust if those are trustworthy entities. I bet you have an idea where I'm about to head with this. Do you know who we don't have to decide on trusting? I think it's pretty clear. Amen. Jesus, right? Um, the the just classic Bible study answer there. It's not always easy to fully trust the Lord. We and we know that. We've all been through seasons or scenarios where like, God, where are you? I I'm struggling to trust you here. But, um, you know, part of that's because even like the these incognito flock cameras, like we can't see God. It's not a physical manifestation all the time. Like it's not like something we just see right in front of our eyes. Um, but scripture reminds us that he is a constant presence and he is constantly directing our lives. Uh, Psalm 37:3-5 says, trust in the Lord and do good. Dwell in the land and befriend faithfulness. Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart. Proverbs 3:5-6, trust in the Lord with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways, acknowledge him and he will make straight your paths. So when we fully surrender to God and his Lordship over our lives, he does offer a truly unique freedom, a peace and a purpose that's unmatched by anything that this world has to offer. We can only find that in the Lord. So what's holding you back? I would ask any of us this. If you're listening to this, Clayton, I'd ask you this. I'm asking myself this. What's holding me back from fully trusting God today? Is it pride? Is it anxiety? Is it a sin? Is it autonomy? Is it privacy? Um, all of that. What's holding you back? And I would just encourage you to ask the Holy Spirit today to help you discern what that hold up is and give you the faith necessary to fully trust in him today. Because God's not a flock camera. He does see everything though. He does see everything, right?

Clayton Harris: [00:18:59] Your data is not in jeopardy with the Lord.

Conner Jones: [00:19:01] Data is not in jeopardy. He knows you. He knows the numbers of hair on your head. He knows everything about you. He knows everything you're doing. You can't hide from him. So in that way, maybe he is kind of like a flock camera, but his data is safe. Our data is safe with God, right?

Clayton Harris: [00:19:14] It'll never be used against you. I think that's the that's the big way is Christ and the Lord our Savior will never use your data, your sin against you. True. The government might.

Conner Jones: [00:19:24] Yeah.

Clayton Harris: [00:19:28] Moving on to another big tech battle this week, uh, that actually broke more news this morning. We were we were going to talk about

Conner Jones: [00:19:35] Like 30 minutes ago.

Clayton Harris: [00:19:36] Like just upended all of Clayton's outline. Yeah, I I spent the last 30 minutes rewriting our our position here. Uh, we were going to discuss the suit that 29 states took against Meta, which is Instagram and Facebook. Uh, against child privacy and and COPPA, C O P P A, uh, which I will find the actual acronym here. Um, Children's Online Privacy Protection Act. So 29 states were suing Meta, uh, in a class action suit that their terms and conditions and the app was basically created to make children addicted, uh, to their apps. So what has broken in the last 30 minutes is that they've settled the case. We're basically at this point in time, I'll walk you through a timeline. Um, we'll talk about the case and then we'll get into, uh, the spiritual application of this. So we're we'll kind of spend high level now that it's wrapped. Uh, in October 2023, uh, the multi-state suit was filed against Meta. Uh, June 30th of this year, 2026, uh, Judge Yvon Gonzalez Rogers out of Oakland rejects Meta's attempt to eliminate major portions of the case. Uh, she also rules that Meta failed to comply with COPPA's notice and parental consent requirements. August 6th, Meta suffers a major defeat in a separate New Mexico case. Uh, that judge ordered Meta to pay $567 million and implement youth safety reforms. Uh, that is combined with a previous $375 million, uh, jury verdict, uh, that Meta is liable in New Mexico, the totaling $290, I'm sorry, $942 million. Sorry, dyslexia.

Conner Jones: [00:21:10] These are really big numbers.

Clayton Harris: [00:21:12] You say that.

Conner Jones: [00:21:12] I know. I I'm I'm setting you up for for a a layup here in a minute because I'm like, these are really big numbers, but they ain't that big.

Clayton Harris: [00:21:19] You say that. I think to us, um, peasants here at the at the bottom level, $942 million would change our lives dramatically. Is it changing the life of a a multi-trillion dollar corporation? Uh, probably not. Drop in the bucket. Drop in the bucket. Uh, August 12th, jury selection begins in the federal, uh, multi-state case. Uh, August 18th, that's when the opening statements had begin. The 18th to the 25th, those 29 states are presenting testimony and internal meta evidence. Uh, former meta executive Arturo Behar testified, which is a big deal. The Instagram CEO, uh, Adam, uh, I'm going to M O S S E R I, Mosseri, uh, takes the stand. And on October, I'm sorry, August 26th, I can't speak today. August 26th, this morning, 30 minutes ago, they settled for a whopping at most $17 billion. Uh, the settlement prevents the case from proceeding through the remainder of its expected six-week trial.

Conner Jones: [00:22:17] So basically Meta said, we don't want to continue with this trial. Um, what's your number? What's your number? They agreed to 17 billion with these 29 attorney generals across all these 29 states, right? Um, but what were they, what were these attorney generals seeking? Weren't they seeking like a much more giant number?

Clayton Harris: [00:22:34] They were seeking a massive number. They were, uh, originally seeking $200 billion is what they had said they were going to attempt to get in a settlement. Meta had said, well, at the time of the suit, this could cost us 1.4 trillion, which is basically their entire company. Correct. Uh, 200 billion to 17 billion, uh, at a settlement, not even 10% of the original desired amount. I think is at the risk of being too opinionated here, it's another drop in a bureaucracy bucket. Yeah. Um, of of it just is unfortunate, honestly. And I'm really trying to restrain myself of of being a little more heated about this because this is just in my opinion, the the care for kid like these are children we're talking about and you're you're bringing drugs to children, dopamine over overdosing children on your app. It really is addiction. So I I think that there's 17 billion is not enough.

Conner Jones: [00:23:32] Yeah, a lot of this came out of, you know, even Mark Zuckerberg had to go before Congress and testify and he had to turn around and apologize to families who had kids who were bullied online or or completely addicted and all like and and he had to say sorry to them. Was there true pity in his sorry? I don't know. But it was kind of an embarrassing moment for him. That was like three or four years ago. And it all led to this point where it's like, hey, Meta, you you said you didn't design these apps to keep kids addicted and on their screens all day, but you really did. In fact, we have evidence. I know these attorney generals pulled evidence, they pulled emails and and messages in internal communications at Meta showing them knowing, hey, we've got an algorithm that's like really good. We know how to keep these kids on here. We've got these features on these apps that make you want to just stay there, um, especially with a young mind who who's it's growing, it's maturing, it's not mature enough to know when to quit. Um, and even some of us who are older and more mature, it's still hard for us to know when to quit. I mean, you you go straight to these apps because they are addicting in that way. And so for them to to, I don't know, they took advantage of of children because it got them more ad dollars, it got them more screen time. It it it's an entertainment competitor, essentially, the same way YouTube is and Netflix and all these things. Yeah, they know what they're doing here and it's it's disappointing that people who are in charge of something like this is all who do you trust in technology? This is that whole conversation, right? But I mean, I I'm I'm glad to see that a settlement was reached. I know it's not even 10% of what the attorney generals were going for, but it in some way is a reprimand of Meta and a I feel like a confession of, yeah, we kind of did do this.

Clayton Harris: [00:25:12] It's additional precedence. Uh, you know, it's not just money that's going to be exchanged here. They're ultimately going to have to agree to changing parts of their algorithm and terms and conditions that would protect children under 13. Good. So more to come on that. Obviously, this is 30 minutes ago breaking news. More specifics will come out. We'll you'll likely see numbers in the range of 12 to 18 billion in terms of cash and then some terms and condition changes. There's a stipulation to how that money is spent and where it goes and that I think we should talk about briefly. Yeah. Uh, that money, remember, 29 states participating in this, uh, multi multi-state lawsuit. Uh, it's going to the money is going to those states. Meta is guaranteeing between 12.1 and 12.7 billion over 10 years.

Conner Jones: [00:25:56] Over 10 years.

Clayton Harris: [00:25:57] This is what I'm saying. This is a drop.

Conner Jones: [00:25:58] They should have to fork it out now, man.

Clayton Harris: [00:26:00] This is a drop, write the check. They should write the check. This is a drop in a bucket of bureaucracy that we I now I'm getting all right. I got to

Conner Jones: [00:26:07] Bob Iger can drop $12 billion in a day for the Lakers. I think Meta can do this in an hour.

Clayton Harris: [00:26:14] Yep. Another roughly 5 billion can become payable if other major platforms, Tik Tok, YouTube, adopt comparable child safety protections and reach related agreements. Interesting. You know what they which basically is saying, we don't want to lose to a competitor, so we'll we'll pay an extra 5 billion to make sure you hit them with the same terms and conditions you're hitting us with.

Conner Jones: [00:26:33] Well, it is and I I don't agree with what Meta is doing there, but I do think we should have the similar thing for all these other social media apps. I mean, should not should we not have the same thing for X and Tik Tok and Snapchat?

Clayton Harris: [00:26:43] I don't disagree. I don't disagree. But that should like there's a responsibility here, right? And they're not doing it proactively. They're reacting to dollars leaving and and public forum. So I I like, I I don't know if you can tell, but this fires me up a little bit and I'm I am a little heated. I'm trying my best to not get too overtly political here, uh, and yell into the camera. Nobody needs to hear me rant, you know what I mean?

Conner Jones: [00:27:11] I think a lot of people feel the same way though. I mean, it's just frustrating and these are people in power, um, with their technology and with the the obviously these insane dollars that they have that it's really hard to keep accountability here. Um, and these attorney generals, I mean, they're trying in some form or fashion. And maybe this will be some sort of reckoning in the meta offices, but it definitely is not upending the company. $17 billion truly is not a huge thing for. In fact, you told me right before this, the stock the stock rose this morning on this news because shareholders were worried probably that it was going to be a much bigger amount that they were going to have to settle for. And they got away with $17 billion. So and that was obviously a thing that made shareholders confident.

Clayton Harris: [00:27:51] Again, us peasants here in the real world say $17 billion would change my life tomorrow in a crazy amount of dollars. Uh, I think what needs to also be discussed is how the states are spending this money. It's not going to the consumer. Uh, it is going to social programs. Like if we're having an overarching calm about what it is, you know, youth mental health services, education, digital literacy, uh, crisis intervention, after school and summer programs, phone-free school initiatives, uh, and other programs that are intended to address harms associated with youth social media use. Um, I think valiant causes. Um, I I think is valiant the right word? I don't even know.

Conner Jones: [00:28:29] Uh, I just said it. I just said it and I was like, I don't think that's the right word.

Clayton Harris: [00:28:34] Valiant. I think I think like they are, um, righteous causes to that extent. I am hesitant to the social welfare state that giving money and transferring money from corporate to bureaucracy is not actually benefiting the consumer. It's not actually benefiting the individuals affected by this. It's going into another roundabout government spending wheel, uh, and carousel that just continues to hemorrhage our tax dollars. So as far as I'm concerned on a very personal non-denison ministries opinion, uh, forum, this is this is not a win. I think yesterday I would have I would yesterday before settlement comes, this is more than another big tech lawsuit. As of right now, I'm going, it's just another drop in a bucket of bureaucracy.

Conner Jones: [00:29:19] A lot of people called this like Big Tech's big tobacco moment where like in the 90s, big tobacco companies really got reckoned with and Congress really forced them to have to change their entire system and their disclosures and big lawsuits and all that. And this is kind of that, but I don't think it's I don't think it's to that extreme. where where like basically people stopped smoking after after all of that because they realized they had to basically all the those companies had to come forward and say, yeah, we we did create an addictive product, just like Facebook's doing here. Uh, and it's really harmful for you. And after that, we saw massive decline in the number of Americans who were smoking. Um, I don't think we're going to see that massive decline in the number of Americans who are on social media because of this.

Clayton Harris: [00:30:02] Yeah, um, I I think the last 20 years, I we've treated social media as something we can choose to consume. And at this point, there's there's so much pressure from your peers to consume it, so much social it's so integrated into our social lives. Uh, and then you add in an algorithm and an app that basically makes you addicted to it. That I don't think we can look at it that way anymore. We can't look at it as a, you know, do you don't like it, delete it, you know, are you worried about your kids having phones, take the phone away. I think there is a greater responsibility that we have to take in educating our families and educating ourselves on on what these effects are. Because I'll speak on a on a personal level as well, professionally, I work in social media. That's that's a level of of my job to work with these algorithms. And so it's important to to how I make money and provide for my family. So I can't toss it away. No, it's a tool. I can't toss away my livelihood.

Conner Jones: [00:30:59] It's a tool. It's the same thing with flock cameras. Like it's a tool that can be used for good, but it it gets misused, right? Um, and that's that's where the big question is and how do we use these things?

Clayton Harris: [00:31:10] You know, and maybe a good comparison is 20 years ago when video games started to break onto the scene. Yeah. Uh, and violent video games at that. Call of I remember when Call of Duty came out, my parents, my church, my my friends and family were all like, is our kid going to be more prone to violence now? Which I think you could make an argument, yes. Uh, you know, after 20 years of these violent, you know, do you remember Gears of War? Oh yeah. How just gruesome that that was. I mean, there are some gruesome video games. Yeah, terrible for kids. should not be playing at age 10, you know. Correct. I think there's a desensitization to violence from these video games, not necessarily a prone to more violence. I think you could argue it, but it's safer to say desensitization to it. Uh, I think we really need to be careful with how we expose our kids to this. Like Meta is basically admitting that they've made it addictive to children. It's addictive to adults. We as Christians, we as as young parents, as parents of young kids and toddlers, need to be so mindful of of and you hear screen time, but I think it is more about what they're preferring and how we we target or push our kids to prefer outside play, to prefer, uh, prayer and dinner and like versus technology, iPads, phones, etc.

Conner Jones: [00:32:25] Well,

Clayton Harris: [00:32:27] super hopeful stuff here. And maybe the last maybe the last thing I'll say, like, we should care about corporate responsibility. I I think that there is a level of we should want to hold these things accountable, hold these hold these, uh, large corporations accountable for what they're doing to us on on our behalf and how we're affected by it. But we shouldn't outsource that to Congress, Silicon Valley, judges, the legal system. We can't just let them take care of it, especially with this ruling. Like we can't we can't tell them to handle it and trust them to handle it because they're not getting what is actually going to benefit us or change how we're doing it, how we're going to, uh, live our lives going forward. I don't anticipate any real changes coming from this lawsuit. Uh, but the biggest accountability is is we can hold over ourselves. Yeah. We are accountable for how we use our phones, how we use our computers, how we, uh, use our tablets, talk to our children, show our children acts of love, uh, and we need to hold ourselves in a higher regard as Christians, but also as fathers and mothers. Oh yeah. Uh, brothers, sisters, the whole deal. Like there there needs to be a level of personal accountability.

Conner Jones: [00:33:31] Totally agree with that.

Clayton Harris: [00:33:33] Uh, maybe some scripture to help emphasize that. Uh, the Lord, like, what is technology doing to the desires, attention, relationships, and spiritual formation of my of my child? I want you to ask yourself that question. Uh, to your relationship with God, to your spouse, your friends, your community. Like that is food for thought this week, uh, as we're wrapping up part of this conversation, especially with flock cameras, our worries, concerns, uh, about things that are basically out of our control, influencing how we live our lives, likely. Uh, then I'll just we'll give some spiritual, um, spiritual and and biblical reinforcement. Colossians 3:1-3, Since then you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things, for you died and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. Romans 12:1-2, Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God. This is your true and proper worship. Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what's God, what God's will is, his good, pleasing, and perfect will. And I think that's the personal accountability. Like every morning, your your life is a living sacrifice to the one who saved you. Yep. And taking that seriously will go leaps and bounds for your faith, but also leaps and bounds for your health. Uh, Hebrews 12:1-3, Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, I'm thankful for you. I'm thankful for for Denson Ministries. Let us throw off everything that hinders, uh, and that and the sin that so easily entangles and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, fixing our eyes on our Lord Jesus Christ, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him, he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider him who endured such opposition from sinners so that you will not grow weary and lose heart. There we have a lot of years left in our life, hopefully, for you and I both. I mean, we're around 30. So we have, you know, another ideally 60 years of our of our life to go. That'd be great. I think the encouraging thing is Christ has run the race and completed it for us. He only asks us to just wake up and keep going and to have faith in him and to put our our solidarity and trust in what he has for us.

Conner Jones: [00:35:53] Yeah, that just the call, do not conform to the pattern of this world is so crucial for our lives, for our hearts. Yes. For our faith. Yeah. We we have to stay in tune with him. Yes. Um, in everything that we do, uh, whether we're on our phones, whether we're driving our car, whether we are walking and talking and grocery shopping and all that stuff, man, don't conform to the pattern of this world is is the command there for us all.

Clayton Harris: [00:36:12] Amen.

Conner Jones: [00:36:13] Yeah, thanks for that deep dive, Clayton. Uh, great stuff and thanks for the last second adjustment. I mean, this is part of being in the news industry is the news happens. I like we were driving here and we got the news alerts. Meta settled the case. Oh, wow. Okay. Um, all right, I want to make a quick announcement. I am so excited to announce that I am the author of Denson Forum's newest newsletter. We've are launching a whole new thing here. Uh, and this is going to be email newsletter that you can subscribe to. It's going to be called In the Know. So, you guys know as Culture Brief listeners, I man, dude, I spend my week, uh, neck deep in sports and pop culture and movies and TV and other headlines and politics. I love it. I'm just like a news and pop culture junkie. That's I don't even know how to say it. It's like my hobby and now I get to do it as a job, which is amazing. Um, but there's also stuff we don't ever touch here on the podcast because this is once a week. Um, and the stuff that we, you know, it just doesn't make it onto the show. So all that additional stuff, I'm now going to put into the newsletter called In the Know. Uh, and in each edition, I'll be curating the stories and the trends that I'm seeing out there that I think are actually worth our attention and that we can respond to as Christians. We're going to look at what they each reveal through a biblical lens, but I'm going to, you know, toss in humor. There's going to be like funny gifs in there, all the fun stuff. It's going to be a fun newsletter, not so like, um, not so serious and not so news news oriented, uh, but you're still going to you're going to get the gist that you know you need to know. That's why it's called in the know. You can come subscribe and stay in the know on all kinds of things. Definitely a lot of sports. You'll hear my Cowboys takes for sure.

Clayton Harris: [00:37:42] Did you just call it, what did you call it? Gifs?

Conner Jones: [00:37:45] Gifs.

Clayton Harris: [00:37:46] I say gifs.

Conner Jones: [00:37:47] I know. A lot of people say gifs. If you go look it up, the founder, not the founder, he didn't found anything, but he did invent, he did invent these moving pictures and he says it is gif. I say gif. I might be that's a, you know what? That's a

Clayton Harris: [00:38:00] It's peanut butter, buddy.

Conner Jones: [00:38:01] I should put a I should put a poll. I'll do this. I'll I'll put a poll on our Instagram story, uh, and I will put a poll on Spotify to ask if you say it as gif or gif, but it should be gif. That's the correct way.

Clayton Harris: [00:38:12] Yeah, it's like peanut butter right now.

Conner Jones: [00:38:13] It's like peanut butter. Uh, anyway,

Clayton Harris: [00:38:14] I'm so excited for this. Please tune in. I mean, Connor does such a great job leading this community and his his perspective on the world, uh, is coming from a very godly perspective. It's it's not, uh, he's not he doesn't have to throw this stuff off of his back. He doesn't have to self-protect himself. This is what the Lord has ordained him to do. So please give it a listen. We're really excited to have him lead that forward.

Conner Jones: [00:38:34] Yeah, I appreciate that. Thanks, Clayton. Um, yeah, you can go subscribe at denisonforum.org/newsletters. I'll be emailing out the first edition on September 17th. So you got a few weeks here. Be putting together that first edition and then I'll be following up with, um, a few editions a month. So go subscribe at denisonforum.org/newsletters. All right, let's jump into check in real fast on a few other things. Sad, sad news this week as you all have heard, we lost the legend, country music legend, Queen of Country, Dolly Parton, um, at age 80 on Tuesday. She died after a brief illness with cancer. Um, and there had been some speculation about that because she canceled some, um, concerts and and performances and had there had been word about health issues and so it was still shocking. I think I I saw this several times. Um, I had a family member tell me this and I saw it several times just on social media. Uh, everybody thought she was just going to live forever. It felt like she was going to be around forever. She looked so strong and healthy even into these last few months. Um, dude, her legacy sure will.

Clayton Harris: [00:39:32] Yeah. Her legacy sure will. She's a very special talent. She's also a very special lady. Um, I've been lucky enough to meet a few people who know have known her personally and it's very she's fantastic.

Conner Jones: [00:39:42] From everything you hear from people like that that that were closer, it was like she actually genuinely was a beautiful soul. Loved people, loved children, her book, um, her book foundation that like sends books out to children across the country, uh, who can't otherwise afford books was incredible. I think it was called the Imagination Library. Um, and I'm sure donations are pouring in there today. Um, dude, her music, 9 to 5, Jolene, the movies she was in, Islands in the Stream with Kenny Rogers, who we also lost like last year. Um, I will always love you, which I know Whitney Houston made an even bigger hit, but she wrote that. Like it she was a genius musician and songwriter. She was loved by everybody. Like truly an unproblematic superstar. Nobody had issues or qualms with her. Every generation loved her. I mean, like the boomers, the silent generation, all the way down to to Gen Z. Man, dude, everybody loved her. I knew

Clayton Harris: [00:40:33] That's how you know you're important. You're doing it right is if

Conner Jones: [00:40:35] She's a cultural icon that everybody loved. Obviously, she's got all kinds of other ventures, TV things, a whole theme park named Dollywood. Yep. One of those people who like when you hear the name Dolly, there's only one person that comes to mind.

Clayton Harris: [00:40:45] Have you been to Dollywood?

Conner Jones: [00:40:45] I've not been.

Clayton Harris: [00:40:46] Very cool. You've been there?

Conner Jones: [00:40:47] Very cool.

Clayton Harris: [00:40:48] I got to go a long time ago, maybe 20 years ago, but very cool.

Conner Jones: [00:40:51] It's probably cooler now.

Clayton Harris: [00:40:52] I mean, two decades later. There's screens now and flock cameras. That's a perfect that's a perfect point. Anyways, very sad about that. Praying for her family. Uh, according to all reports, I mean, she apparently was a very strong woman of faith too and pointed everything back to the Lord. So we believe that she is in heaven with God today, which is a very comforting feeling. But we will miss her here. Um, something else just to mention, Canada and the US, we are in a trade war. Uh, that's lovely, you know, when you're in a trade war with your neighbor. Uh, Canada is accusing the US of kind of pulling last minute strings in negotiations last week and trying to pull a fast one on them. Don't know what happened there or exactly how this fell apart, but now the US is slapping 50% tariffs on a lot of Canadian goods. Canada is responding by doing basically the same thing. And, you know, the the the Prime Minister of Canada, Mark Carney, he said, uh, you're at war when you get attacked. We got attacked. So basically, he then pledged to match US tariffs dollar for dollar. Um, not great.

Clayton Harris: [00:41:51] Not great. I and it's uh, this this administration continues to I I don't know. Lots of questions. Lots of questions. Um, these tariffs directly affect my professional life, so I'm I'm a little like I don't really know how to respond to that in a non-bipartisan way. So

Conner Jones: [00:42:08] I know you work with a lot of Canadian manufacturing and all of that. So this this is a weird thing. It will and to be honest, I'm mentioning because it will impact us every like literally everybody. Prices are going to rise on anything that's coming through Canada, which is probably a lot more than you would think. Um, I mean, you can think about some of the, uh, steel, uh, hockey sticks. I saw fake mustaches come from Canada. Uh, syrup, think about things like that. That that's the type of stuff we're discussing. And apparently Trump is also going to do the same thing with autos. You know, we send a lot of vehicles up through the northern border. Uh, so Ford and Chevy, companies like that are going to take a hit here. It's just interesting. Um, maybe there's some economic reason that we should support this. I'm not really sure. I'm not an economist here. We've talked about tariffs a million times. This one's just very interesting because it is with our northern neighbor who is a very close ally for a lot of reasons and is culturally as close to the United States as we can get. Yet we've got these these borders that make us different and affect our economies differently. It's just interesting.

Clayton Harris: [00:43:07] Yeah, I think there'll be a, you know, in 10 years, there'll be a study on how this actually affected the United States and how it actually affected our our citizens and our economy. Uh, we're looking at it at at a microscope that's way too close right now and reacting reacting similar to how he's reacting. So I think we're just the Lord is in total control. Uh, he knows all things that are going to happen and wants to provide for us and care for us as believers and has our best interest at heart and will love us. So I'm I'm I'm trying that's what I'm focusing on. I think that comes from a place of hope and not like a

Conner Jones: [00:43:37] Yeah, that's exactly the way we should approach these things is if we can let it just eat us away with anxiety and like concern about our economy and our livelihoods and all that. Or we can give it up to the Lord and trust that everything will be okay. I will say, you know, Justin Trudeau, the former Prime Minister of Canada, man, he got out just in time because now he's off jet setting with his pop star girlfriend, Katy Perry. They're living like a celebrity lifestyle. I keep seeing pictures of them everywhere. I'm like, I don't need to see Justin Trudeau and Katy Perry like kissing at a big public event. Like it's just not it's good for you, man. You were the Prime Minister and now you're with a pop star. It's kind of an interesting career.

Clayton Harris: [00:44:09] I'm not going to add to that. I'm not going to add to that.

Conner Jones: [00:44:12] Uh, one other quick thing to mention, last week we mentioned the Freedom 250 Grand Prix. I actually watched this thing going through DC on Sunday because just kind of turned it on in the background. Really cool stuff. Uh, Kyle Kirkwood was the racer who won. Some interesting just turns, corners all around these national monuments. I thought it was pretty cool.

Clayton Harris: [00:44:27] Is that a Indy 500? Is that like a

Conner Jones: [00:44:29] It was Indy 500 and it was through the streets of DC. Um, that's not as the American F1. Correct. But yeah, yeah. Uh, although normally they're going in loops like on NASCAR tracks. But this was this was an actual like street race, which was cool. Uh, felt very F1-ish. Uh, last thing here, just for tune in because this is super exciting stuff. Football is back, baby. We are so back. Kind of college football. I said the same thing with preseason football for the NFL. College football week zero is here this Saturday. It's called week zero because it's not a full slate of games. It's just a handful of games. Um, and it's not technically week one. That's still next week when we get a full slate. College game day comes back. Everybody comes back for that. Uh, but this weekend we are going to see some football, specifically in Ireland. We're going to see TCU play the University of North Carolina with Bill Belichick as the head coach there, the Patriots six-time Super Bowl winning legend, uh, is helming a disaster there at North Carolina. It's been a complete mess with him. I don't think he will make it past this season, which would be shocking, but also not shocking, but also like this is the most legendary coach of all time to be fired at a college.

Clayton Harris: [00:45:39] He has tenure. He has tenure, Connor. He can't be fired.

Conner Jones: [00:45:41] He has tenure. He doesn't have tenure at UNC. He's got one year there.

Clayton Harris: [00:45:44] I think the Pro Football Hall of Fame would beg to differ about his tenure.

Conner Jones: [00:45:48] He had tenure with the Patriots and he got fired. I mean, you know, like it it's kind of an interesting thing. Of course, the argument was it him or Tom Brady that won the Super Bowls? Probably both. Um, there's also a handful of other games we're going to see like Memphis play UNLV.

Clayton Harris: [00:46:00] UNLV? UNLV.

Conner Jones: [00:46:02] You went there, right?

Clayton Harris: [00:46:02] Yeah, go Rebs.

Conner Jones: [00:46:03] Go Rebs. Are you going to watch?

Clayton Harris: [00:46:04] No.

Conner Jones: [00:46:05] It is like a 9:00 p.m. game.

Clayton Harris: [00:46:06] No.

Conner Jones: [00:46:07] Um, so it's a late game. Uh, we've got North Carolina State versus Virginia. All I have to say is it's not the most exciting weekend, but hey, man, football's here. I'll take anything I can get.

Clayton Harris: [00:46:16] And you know what also starting? The run for the postseason for baseball. I think that's more important. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's more important, but that's just a personal opinion.

Conner Jones: [00:46:23] I do love postseason. I just don't watch baseball during the regular season. It's too much.

Clayton Harris: [00:46:26] I don't I don't blame you.

Conner Jones: [00:46:27] But postseason baseball is great. When does that start?

Clayton Harris: [00:46:29] Uh, we're there's like 20 games left in the regular season. And there's some tight races. My San Diego Padres are nine games out of first place, but they're in the wild card. So we'll see how they turn out here.

Conner Jones: [00:46:38] It is usually mid-September when we start seeing those first playoff games, right? Yeah. That's that's going to be fun. Sports are great, man. We love sports. Um, and I just need the NFL back in my life, although the Cowboys will probably drag me down.

Clayton Harris: [00:46:48] I've heard, I mean, Von Miller's a big get. I think they'll be an interesting watch this season.

Conner Jones: [00:46:52] They will be a great watch this season. We're going in with hope. This is our year. We say it every year.

Clayton Harris: [00:46:56] You're going with hope every year.

Conner Jones: [00:46:57] Every year and then it gets dashed by week seven. All right, you guys, thank you all for joining us. Thanks Clayton for being back.

Clayton Harris: [00:47:02] Thanks for having me, man.

Conner Jones: [00:47:03] God bless you. Thank you for joining us on this week's episode of Culture Brief, a Denison Forum podcast. All articles and videos mentioned in this episode will be linked in the show notes. If you want to help us reach more believers with truth in today's chaotic culture, please share this podcast around and leave a five-star rating and review. All episodes are produced by Sound of a Rose. For more information, you can visit soundofarose.com. See you next Thursday."